Deism

My New Spiritual Home

Published on January 19, 2006 By JillUser In Religion

I humbly admit that until introduced to the term "Deism" by Myrrander, I had never heard of it. When Myr set forth that I was deist rather than agnostic, I looked into it and indeed he was right. Friends had always referred to me as agnostic so I accepted that term for lack of knowing a more fitting term.

I believe there is a God in the sense that there is a creator. I don't believe there is an organized religion out there that has it right where God is concerned. I always found organized religions to be too restrictive and circular in thinking. Whenever anyone says they know what God wants, I cringe. I believe God is far too complex for us to "know" anything about.

Agnostic wasn't really a bad fit either since I do believe you can neither prove nor disprove the existance of God. I do know that not all of the organized religions can be right and it is far too exclusive for only one of them to be right. Say christians have it right. What happens to the devoted Jews, muslims, hindus, etc? Is God only choosing some of the population to enlighten? That doesn't jive with me.

I have noticed in my experience that the most devoutly religious people tend to live the most miserable lives. I credit this to the fact that if they didn't believe there would be something better for them in the next life, they wouldn't be able to go on each day of this one.

People say that everything happens for a reason and only God knows the greater purpose. I don't buy that either. Sometimes terrible things happen to wonderful people and there is no reason.

If you have your own opinions regarding things that I have brought up, please share them. However, PLEASE do not come on here and quote scripture or preach to me the error of my ways. I respect the fact that other people have different beliefs than my own and am interested in how they feel about it but I am done with being told why I am wrong in mine and where in the bible it says I'm wrong. You can't convince me the bible is God's word by quoting the bible. That is the circular reasoning that turns me off from organized religion.

So please come here, tell me what you believe, don't believe, or what religion you have faith in but don't preach. I am so done with that that I will remove scripture quotes and ban you.

Comments (Page 3)

Dr Guy

on Jan 20, 2006

For me it was always symbolic for hope.

But if it is symbolic, then by what you say, you cant believe in it. So how will you know?

Leauki

on Jan 20, 2006

But if it is symbolic, then by what you say, you cant believe in it. So how will you know?

I believe in hope because I have hope.

The Jewish concept of the Messiah is not like the Christian concept. The Jewish Messiah will not be a saviour or some god-like being. He will be a normal human being. He will bring peace to Israel and the world. I believe in that hope.

I believe that the whole thing merely represents hope. If we believe that there is a chance of success, we can work towards the goal.

If the world will end and we all meet again afterwards, in a "heaven" of some kind, I can certainly not know that now. It would be an event outside of physical reality. I hope that it happens, and I believe it will. But the physical world will never be affected by it.

JillUser

on Jan 20, 2006

I just think that I can embrace the moral concepts without being compelled to follow the ritual.

I reread this and I really like this message. One of the things I didn't like about the different church services that I have attended over the years is all of the chanting, signing, etc. that you "just do". So often when I would ask why those things were done, I couldn't get an answer other than it is just part of the religion. Some people put immense thought into their religion and I have a lot of respect for that. It is the ones that just go with the flow without ever questioning that bother me. Ritual means nothing. Where your heart and mind are is everything.

I have had some of the most morally bankrupt people I know tell me I am going to hell because I wasn't baptized. Too many people think such a ritual will "save" them. I have a friend whose baby almost died when he was first born and she was terrified that he would go to purgatory because he hadn't been baptized yet. This made me infuriated with the catholic church.

UBoB

on Jan 20, 2006

I believe there is me
I believe there is my wife
I believe there is my dog
I believe there is my extended family
I believe there are my friends.
I treat them all with respect and kindness
They treat me the same.

That is all.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 20, 2006

believe Jesus was an extremely important teacher who changed mankind for the better. His compasionate ways and peaceful messages are important no matter what religion you are affiliated with. But that doesn't mean that he had to be the son of God.

This "teacher" said he was not only the "son" of God. He said He was "God." So either this "teacher" was telling the truth or he was lying.

But if it is symbolic, then by what you say, you cant believe in it. So how will you know

Thanks Doc...I was thinkin that too.

JillUser

on Jan 20, 2006

This "teacher" said he was not only the "son" of God. He said He was "God." So either this "teacher" was telling the truth or he was lying.

Yep. That's true. But you can learn important lessons either way. He could have been on drugs and it wouldn't have made his lessons of being kind to one another any less important. A good idea is a good idea whether it comes from a genius or a lunatic (and sometimes they are one and the same).

JillUser

on Jan 20, 2006

BTW, I just wanted to mention that I greatly appreciate everyone honoring my request. I know that religion is a personal thing that people feel very passionate about. Everyone has been very tolerant and I am really enjoying the discussion as a result.

Thank you!

Myrrander

on Jan 20, 2006

I can comment here, but I can't comment through the JU homepage, that's strange. I'm sure it has something to do with the changes my status has gone through due to violations of the TOU (no biggie, at any rate).

I've enjoyed reading this discussion quite a bit. After reading Karen's remarks, it made me think that if I had to pick any system of belief to follow, it would probably be Taoism. Lao Tsu seems to understand things better even that Gautama Buddha, although "pure" Buddhism is a wonderful thing. Buddhism in its other forms has been far too removed from its non-theistic roots for my taste, though -- and unfortunately, most of the reading I've done on Buddhism hasn't made enough of a separation between early Buddhism and later Buddhism (and I'm aware that there are greater separations than that).

There's an old tale that I love, and it concerns Confucious, Buddha, and Lao Tsu. The purpose of the tale is to draw a distinction between each philosophy. It seems, at one time, that Confucious, Buddha, and Lao Tsu were all gathered around a jar of vinegar. Confucious tasted the vinegar, and being practical, called the flavor "sour." Buddha, who believed that all life is suffering tasted the vinegar and called it bitter. Lao Tsu, who believed that things are defined by opposites and outside our knowledge tasted the vinegar and called it sweet. Each of them was right in his own way, due to his own perception.

Cheers.

TARSIER

on Jan 21, 2006

I have noticed in my experience that the most devoutly religious people tend to live the most miserable lives.

Sorry Jill, I don't have time to read all the replies, although its a very interesting topic. I will have to disagree with you on this one though. I know some people who are devoutly religious and are quite happy(although I know some devoutly religious who aren't happy). I know happy Buddhists, Christians:Catholics, Lutherans, Adventists, and Non-denoms., Muslims, and even a couple Wikkens(I am not sure how devout they are because I am not very familiar with their practices). Overall, I think that being devoutly religious does not have to create a miserable lifestyle, even though it seems some devoutists are miserable, but it depends on personality.

I wish you luck in your soul searching and hope you find truth (tell me when you do

).

Jay

JillUser

on Jan 21, 2006

I know some people who are devoutly religious and are quite happy

I think that being devoutly religious does not have to create a miserable lifestyle

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Obviously I don't think that all devoutly religious people are miserable. I was saying that it seems that people who are really miserable become extremely religious in order to deal with what they are faced with in the here and now.

I never insinuated that being devoutly religious would make you miserable. And I was only speaking of my own experience and not in general so you really can't disagree with what I experienced...can you?

JillUser

on Jan 21, 2006

Confucious tasted the vinegar, and being practical, called the flavor "sour." Buddha, who believed that all life is suffering tasted the vinegar and called it bitter. Lao Tsu, who believed that things are defined by opposites and outside our knowledge tasted the vinegar and called it sweet. Each of them was right in his own way, due to his own perception.

I absolutely love that story! Life is a great adventure in learning. What a great age we live in where we can enjoy great minds from around the world at our fingertips here on JU! Thanks Myr. Food for the mind and soul...yummy!

Leauki

on Jan 21, 2006

people who are really miserable become extremely religious in order to deal with what they are faced with

That is true.

And in fact, that is the market for religion.

What is fortunate is that there are religions that actually help these people. Christianity is a good example!

What is unfortunate is that there are religions and pseudo-religions and fundamentalist versions of religions that basically prey on this people and make them do their bidding.

Dr Guy

on Jan 21, 2006

The Jewish concept of the Messiah is not like the Christian concept. The Jewish Messiah will not be a saviour or some god-like being. He will be a normal human being. He will bring peace to Israel and the world. I believe in that hope.

I believe that the whole thing merely represents hope. If we believe that there is a chance of success, we can work towards the goal.

I hope you write more on this. I find it intriguing since my knowledge in the area is woefully lacking. It would be an interesting read.

JillUser

on Jan 21, 2006

hope you write more on this. I find it intriguing since my knowledge in the area is woefully lacking. It would be an interesting read

I second that suggestion!

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 21, 2006

From a biblical Christian perspective....you have just described the Anti-Christ. This is exactly what many Christians are talking about right now. We are watching Israel and Iran very closely. Cuz we believe (based on scripture) that Iran will go into Israel to destroy it...but be unsuccesful. We believe a "man" will broker peace (howbeit false peace) between the Jews and the Arabs and eventually the whole world will be united under this time of "peace" but it will be short lived.

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