Deism

My New Spiritual Home

Published on January 19, 2006 By JillUser In Religion

I humbly admit that until introduced to the term "Deism" by Myrrander, I had never heard of it. When Myr set forth that I was deist rather than agnostic, I looked into it and indeed he was right. Friends had always referred to me as agnostic so I accepted that term for lack of knowing a more fitting term.

I believe there is a God in the sense that there is a creator. I don't believe there is an organized religion out there that has it right where God is concerned. I always found organized religions to be too restrictive and circular in thinking. Whenever anyone says they know what God wants, I cringe. I believe God is far too complex for us to "know" anything about.

Agnostic wasn't really a bad fit either since I do believe you can neither prove nor disprove the existance of God. I do know that not all of the organized religions can be right and it is far too exclusive for only one of them to be right. Say christians have it right. What happens to the devoted Jews, muslims, hindus, etc? Is God only choosing some of the population to enlighten? That doesn't jive with me.

I have noticed in my experience that the most devoutly religious people tend to live the most miserable lives. I credit this to the fact that if they didn't believe there would be something better for them in the next life, they wouldn't be able to go on each day of this one.

People say that everything happens for a reason and only God knows the greater purpose. I don't buy that either. Sometimes terrible things happen to wonderful people and there is no reason.

If you have your own opinions regarding things that I have brought up, please share them. However, PLEASE do not come on here and quote scripture or preach to me the error of my ways. I respect the fact that other people have different beliefs than my own and am interested in how they feel about it but I am done with being told why I am wrong in mine and where in the bible it says I'm wrong. You can't convince me the bible is God's word by quoting the bible. That is the circular reasoning that turns me off from organized religion.

So please come here, tell me what you believe, don't believe, or what religion you have faith in but don't preach. I am so done with that that I will remove scripture quotes and ban you.

Comments (Page 2)

Ziggystyles

on Jan 20, 2006

What you just said is something that I have a huge problem with in organized religion. Why did you have to be freaked out and scared before you then "realized" that it was the presence of "God"? To somebody who is not Christian, that sounds like religious brain washing. Why do you have to organize to find God? Shouldn't that feeling have always been with you?

No. It depends on how you were raised. In my Catholic life...I was never told I could have a relationship with God. I never was told to pray to God...but to pray to him and Mary and any other saint that the Church deemed to be a saint. I never experienced God, nor knew I could be close to him and put my faith and life in his hands. God didn't freak me out...but the experience itself did. I had never felt the presence of God before. I never felt a connection to God. When I went there, people werent just singing...but they were praising and worshiping...something I had never seen before. The pastor would call people up to the altar so he and his deacons could pray with them or so that the church could pray with them. There is a slight difference between a moment of Silence in the Catholic church, and 400-1000 members of a congregation praying over a person / family. I have often said that....now that I look back at where I was when I attended the Catholic church....my life wasn't going anywhere. I wasnt really following God...just sort of doing things out of a fear...going to church once a week, doing confessions to a priest, praying to God, Mary, and x number of saints, giving exactly 10%...etc. My relationship with God was non-existant and I would not have gone to Heaven if I had stayed on that path. My life isnt driven by whether or not I go to heaven or hell...but it is driven my desire for Christ in my life. If I follow Him, I don't need to worry about death or what happens afterwards.

I didnt all of a sudden realize...because it was something that I wasn't used to...pentacostal churches are very different from mainstream catholic masses. People didn't seem like they were obligated to come...they would actually come to praise and worship with friends and family 2-3 times a week for the various services. They had missions trips, building churches and schools and you could feel that there was something very powerful moving these people...a passion, love, and life changing relationship with Christ that I had never even remotely thought was possible. I was scared because I was experiencing something that I had never experienced before. I thought these happy dancing people, singing, hugging each other and praying for each othere were on something. Didn't think it could be God...didn't think a life with God could be that way.

adnauseam

on Jan 20, 2006

You are right. Religion is a personal thing and so many people seem to spout so much crappy philosophy about it.

KarmaGirl

on Jan 20, 2006

There is a slight difference between a moment of Silence in the Catholic church, and 400-1000 members of a congregation praying over a person / family.

How do you know that what you were feeling wasn't the unity of mankind, and not "God"? How do you know that you weren't feeling the Over Soul?

Being that you have always been raised Christian and followed Christianity, it is very doubtful that you will be able to *truly* stand on the outside and look in to see what I am saying.

Dr Guy

on Jan 20, 2006

How do you know that you weren't feeling the Over Soul?

Over soul? New term. Can you elaborate some?

KarmaGirl

on Jan 20, 2006

Over soul? New term. Can you elaborate some?

It's the basis of Transcendentalism. Here's a link with some very basic info: http://www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/pal/chap4/4intro.html

Dr Guy

on Jan 20, 2006

It's the basis of Transcendentalism. Here's a link with some very basic info: http://www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/pal/chap4/4intro.html[/quote]

AH! Thank you. It is the Force!

Seriously, thanks for the education.

Ziggystyles

on Jan 20, 2006

How do you know that what you were feeling wasn't the unity of mankind, and not "God"? How do you know that you weren't feeling the Over Soul?

Lol...because I was there, I experienced it...and continue to experience it. Im not looking for whatever fits me...for something that satisfies some inner desire of what I think I need to have to complete me. On here, we have seen many examples of what people believe. I didn't go looking for religion or Christianity or anything. I didn't search for something that I wanted so that I could finally justify my life and my beliefs. God called me and showed me I was empty without him. I have been filled up with his spirit inside me.

There is no unity of mankind...if anything..it is dwindling almost more and more. Mankind continuously tries to squander itself and get what it wants..quashing any thing that holds a value to people. Religion? Hide it, ban it, make it illegal. Morals? Not if it doesnt fit into the culture. Mankind wants what it wants and is willing to step over anyone or do anything it can in order to get what it wants.

foreverserenity

on Jan 20, 2006

"People say that everything happens for a reason and only God knows the greater purpose. I don't buy that either. Sometimes terrible things happen to wonderful people and there is no reason."

Sometimes people experience life in different ways, good or bad, and this leads them to something even better. Even if what happened to them was bad, perhaps it is a wake up call. No, no one needs to have something bad or earth shattering happen to them, however, sometimes, whether some like to admit it or not, there's a greater force at play. That greater force could be God or any of those belief system you have.

I like to think that all these different beliefs lead to one God. Because if we didn't all believe in something, even if you don't believe or acknowledge that it is Him, where would you be?

Reply By: Andrew J. BrehmPosted: Friday, January 20, 2006I believe in G-d, but I don't believe in Christ (as the son of G-d).

Andrew, why do you not spell the word out - God? Just curious. Also, out of respectful curiosity, how can you believe in God but not in Christ?
Wasn't it through Christ that we were all saved?

I also believe that the laws of the Bible only apply to Jews

Why? Again, my curiosity as to how you arrive at this.

Jill, as you probably already know, I am Christian by faith and beliefs. I do understand your spirituality and I'm glad you know that which you believe in and what you are by your own faith.

Christianity is a faith that has been and is still so misunderstood by many people; even those who believe. I won't ever say I know everything about it. I only know what I've learned and what I do practise in my own life. And this faith that I know is what I try to live and teach to my children and anyone else who wants to know. I guess in a sense I live my life literally as I speak and that's how I practise my faith. There's no frills and no blinders attach to my way of living and thinking about God.

dharmagrl

on Jan 20, 2006

I live an ethical life, and I do what I can to help others and Mother Earth, but I don't do anything for the pure reason that it's the "good Christian" thing to do. I am empowered by myself, not "God". Heaven and Hell are both on Earth, and once I die, I'm nothing but worm food and compost. And, I'm totally cool with that.

That's me too.

latour999

on Jan 20, 2006

I'm an atheist, and I try to live my life to the "moral code" of maximizing good and minimizing harm. Basically, don't be a jerk if you can't help it. And there isn't anything I really worship, and what I value most is people, not god(s).

JillUser

on Jan 20, 2006

Andrew, why do you not spell the word out - God? Just curious. Also, out of respectful curiosity, how can you believe in God but not in Christ?
Wasn't it through Christ that we were all saved?

I can answer that for myself. We all know that Jesus Christ existed. Christians believe that he is the son of God. *Only* christians believe that. That is why I find a question like that to be an unthinking one. Just because you feel that we are all saved through Christ doesn't mean everyone shares that feeling, belief, faith. Why couldn't one believe that we had a creator without believing he sent a son to Earth to "save" us?

I believe Jesus was an extremely important teacher who changed mankind for the better. His compasionate ways and peaceful messages are important no matter what religion you are affiliated with. But that doesn't mean that he had to be the son of God.

Heaven and Hell are both on Earth, and once I die, I'm nothing but worm food and compost. And, I'm totally cool with that.

I commend you for that. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be cool with that and that is something that attracts them to organized religion, the faith that there is reward in the after life.

Oh, I dont know about that. Seems Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are living pretty well!

I wouldn't consider them the most devout christians I know.

Simply put, I believe that if there is a Creator, He or She cares more that we try to help each day than that we participate in rituals. And if there ISN'T a Creator, then the good deeds are there own reward.

I think that is an absolutely wonderful way to live!

I lay my problems at his feet and he takes care of them for me.

I don't know anyone who wouldn't like to have that feeling Ziggy.

JillUser

on Jan 20, 2006

I'm an atheist, and I try to live my life to the "moral code" of maximizing good and minimizing harm

I have a dear christian friend who honostly asked "how can you teach your children morality without christianity?" I don't know about you latour99, but I believe in good and evil. I believe evil people will do things that good people simply never could. You can also believe in treating others the way you would have them treat you without believing Christ is the son of God. In other words, christianity doesn't equal morality. I know very moral atheists and I know very immoral christians. The two are exclusive.

Leauki

on Jan 20, 2006

Andrew, why do you not spell the word out - God? Just curious.

Somebody might print out the text I wrote and accidentally destroy the copy.

Also, out of respectful curiosity, how can you believe in God but not in Christ?
Wasn't it through Christ that we were all saved?

I believe in G-d the creator. I do not believe in G-d the meddler. For me the idea of a "son of G-d" is too much meddling. If you believe in Christ and that he saved you, that's good. It's a very positive faith! But I cannot believe in something I cannot see, except for the one thing that I could not possibly see by definition.

I realise this is somewhat offensive towards Christians. But I cannot explain it in any other way. Sorry.

Why [do the laws in the Bible only apply to Jews]? Again, my curiosity as to how you arrive at this.

The Torah was given to the Jews. Alternatively it was made up by the Jewish leader at the time. Either way, it's Jewish law. G-d did not demand that anybody follow it but Jews, at least if what the Bible says about it is true. (We will have to assume that this is so since we already assumed that the laws in the Bible are G-d's laws.)

The Bible does mention the laws of Noah, which are binding for all humanity (all descendants of Noah, who was, allegedly, the only survivor, with his family, at a time). But these laws are more general and not identical with the 613 commandments (of which the ten commandments are the summary or category list).

Christians and Muslims (and other faiths) later voluntarily agreed to follow Jewish law as well, and based their new religions on it. But I do not believe that there is any obligation for non-Jews to follow the law.

Christians are allowed to eat pork.

(Even though Flanders in the Simpsons eats kosher, just in case!)

Dr Guy

on Jan 20, 2006

If you believe in Christ and that he saved you, that's good. It's a very positive faith! But I cannot believe in something I cannot see, except for the one thing that I could not possibly see by definition.

But I thought you were Jewish, so you are awaiting your Saviour. This befuddles me.

Leauki

on Jan 20, 2006

But I thought you were Jewish, so you are awaiting your Saviour. This befuddles me.

Nobody guarantees that this will be a physical event. For me it was always symbolic for hope.

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