Loyalty works both ways. If I was married to someone who just laid around in bed all day while I worked, came home to take care of the kids and such I would eventually grow to resent that.  I would consider it an exploitation of my loyalty and eventually it would lead to serious martial problems.

 

if one partner is truly doing "everything" for too long, the relationship will eventually fail

I do agree with this statement, and with the sentiments that Draginol expressed. I was not saying that my husband does everything all of the time. In fact, what I said was that

my husband has probably done more work around the house than I have

There have been very few times in our marriage that I did absolutely nothing and my husband did everything. There have been times that he did more than his "fair share", some due to circumstances(which did not last long), some due to choice, but there have also been situations where I did more than my "fair share". I am a firm believer that a marriage is not a 50/50 partnership. A marriage is something that requires 100% all the time in order to work, and both partners are not capable of providing that all of the time. So, when one person is only able to contribute 40% one day, the other needs to contribute 60% for things to work smoothly. I am not merely talking about physical work, either. I am referring to the emotional and spiritual aspects of the relationship as well.

It does, however, depend on the individuals involved and their own circumstances

Thank you, Jill, for that statement. Each family does have its own circumstances, and the individuals involved have their own way of dealing with things. I'm not trying to imply that our situation was good, or that others should be able to do exactly what we have done. I do not in any way, shape, or form purport to be an expert when it comes to marriage, but we have worked hard to get where we are and have the relationship that we have, flawed as it is. We have worked through many serious marital problems, and there will be many more in the future.

I would eventually grow to resent that.

I believe that most people would, it's understandable, and at times both myself and my husband have resented each other for situations that have happened. This is normal, even in a healthy relationship, and as long as you are willing to communicate and work through things with each other, it can remain a healthy relationship. As I said,

Not too many men would have stayed through everything he's been through

and I'm not just referring to the topic at hand. I admit that at times I have been wrong, very wrong, and I don't deserve to still have what I have, but through the grace of God, and the loyalty of my husband, I do. I am a blessed woman.

Jill--I apologize for taking up so much room on your thread, but I felt I needed to clarify what I stated earlier. I admire you greatly for being a housewife, I admire anyone who chooses to remain at home and raise their children, whether it be mom or dad.

and Geezer.....thank you.....sometimes it's nice to hear that from someone else.

Stay at home parents have a more than full time job and anyone who says different can KMA.

uh...well..all parents have more than a full time job if you work or not.  If you work, you work outside the house 40+ hours then come home and take care of the kids and home.  If you don't work, you take care of the kids and home. 

Most stay at home parents that I know become very organized and create a routine (no different than working outside the home).  Just like working outside the home, if you are not organized your work will seem harder than it really is.  I have been both a stay at home Mom and work full time.  Staying at home is not harder than working full time (that's not to say that it is necessarily easier), but it is less stressful.

Staying at home is not harder than working full time (that's not to say that it is necessarily easier), but it is less stressful.

I think we are all getting into trouble by making too general of statements.  Karma, you simply can't state that staying at home is not harder than working full time or is less stressful because it all depends on the individual's challenges.  There are some full time jobs that are far easier than staying at home with children.  And some people have problems with their children or their environment that makes staying at home more stressful.

I think, in general, that staying at home affords you the benefit of not being stressed by the deadlines most experience in work outside the home but that is a trade off for being the one who is responsible for whatever happens whenever it happens (barf-o-rama at 2AM for example).  There is no such thing as an 8hr day for a stay-at-home parent.  The difference is, their down time is usually in increments throughout the day rather than being able to say "phew, glad that day is over" at "quitting time".

LadyCleve, I appreciated your input.  I think as long as you love each other and have mutual respect and communication, you will have no problems you can't over come.  I doubt your husband would stick around if you weren't "worth it".  Sounds like you appreciate him and that is so very important.  Feeling appreciated can make up for a lot of percieved discrepencies.

I think we are all getting into trouble by making too general of statements. Karma, you simply can't state that staying at home is not harder than working full time or is less stressful because it all depends on the individual's challenges.

I am basing that on my experience of doing both (which is
why I mentioned that I did both in the preceding sentence). 
If you work, somebody still has to take care of the child/children once you get
home.  You also have to take care of all the household chores, bill paying
and everything once you get home.  There is no "quitting time" for a
working Mom, either- it's not an 8 hour day.  You still have to deal with
the 2am barf-o-rama then figure out how to get to work in the morning or who
has to stay home.  You simply leave one "job" to go to another.  That
is why I said that it is not harder to stay at home than it is to work. 
Sure, I am sure that you can find some instance where that is not the case, but
from my experience of doing both, I can't say that staying at home is harder
(especially once your kids are in school). Since I stated that I have done
both, I am stating my experience.  The only real stress that I had when I
stayed home was the lack of money (hence why I started working).  However,
while working, I have the stress of actual work stuff (which really isn't were
the stress of working comes from), commuting,  figuring out who will take
the day off with a sick kid, scheduling who will put the kid on the bus and take
her off as well as get her to any other activities, and trying to figure out how
to get all the housework, grocery shopping, bill paying and family time
packed into the few hours a night and on weekends that I have free.  If you
stay home or work, it doesn't matter- being a Mom in general is a 24/7 job.

hmm...I wonder how it got formatted that way   That is very odd.....

I would be happy with my current arrangement for whatever amount of time needed. I know my husband feels the same way.

That comment made me smile. After all her kids left the house, my mom quit. She quit making dinner every night, quit doing all the chores and went out and got a job. She rarely cooks any more and says that she spent a great portion of her life making dinner for five, and that she wasn't going to spend the rest of it only cooking dinner for two. My dad is a fantastic cook, who would have thought? I don't know if any man is pussy-whipped because he comes home and does chores around the house after work. Why? Because my father's way of relaxing, as strange as it may sound is to do chores... cutting the grass, taking the dog out for walks, fixing cars and washing machines... he knows my mom can't do some of that, and wouldn't think to pay someone to do what he obviously could while getting time to think, zone out, yet still be productive. Workaholic? Maybe, but definitely not whipped. And there are many working men who do the exact same thing for the exact same reasons.

KarmaGirl:

commuting, figuring out who will take the day off with a sick kid, scheduling who will put the kid on the bus and take her off as well as get her to any other activities, and trying to figure out how to get all the housework, grocery shopping, bill paying and family time packed into the few hours a night and on weekends that I have free

Those things listed above (add full college schedule to that, as well) were a big factor in my family's decision for me to stay at home with the kids. I spent the first 5 years of our marriage stressed to the point of breakdown. I spent a lot of time freaking out because I couldn't get it all done and I never saw my kids or my husband.

Although I agree with Jill that some stay-at-home parents have extremely difficult and stressful situations at home, my life now is MUCH easier and MUCH less stressful.

I am the laid back type, and I generally (though not always) have plenty of leisure time. I mean, you've seen how much time I spend on JU. My husband wants me to be happy and he likes for me to do things I want to do during the day. Right now my seven year old is at school, my three year old is watching Blues Clues and playing the ukulele and I am drinking a Pepsi One and messing around on the computer. Life is good.

The parent that gets the hands down hardest job in the world is the single parent.  I think we can all agree on that.

When my kids are in school full time, I plan to go back to work at least part time.  I will make sure I am available when they need me and will definitely be home whenever they are (very important point for after school!).  I certainly don't see myself contributing enough by staying at home full time once the kids are gone all day.

Like I said before, all families have unique situations which warrant different solutions.  I feel my husband contributes enormously to our family and that my contributions at home are neccessary for our family to be happy and maximize our time together.  Apparently a lot of people see how difficult it is to work full time as opposed to staying home and therefore really shouldn't see a problem with all of the things I do.  Ironically, it is usually the working parents who are crying loudly about how difficult their lives are that are calling me a doormat.  Their spouse should be "helping" them but I shouldn't be doing so much "for" mine?  I don't get it.

Ironically, it is usually the working parents who are crying loudly about how difficult their lives are that are calling me a doormat.

It's because too many people are "grass is greener on the other side" type people.  If you work outside the home or not, it faces it's own challenges and problems.  People just need to make decisions for themselves and live with it.  If they don't like it, change it, but don't act like somebody else has it "better".  But, I would assume that those people are really just jealous.  They have put themselves in a position that they *have* to work, and with doing that, they are stressed and bitchy all the time.  Nothing anybody can do will make them happy (and that is why they complain about their husbands).   unfortunately, I know too many people like that.  They are usually the stressed out, have to have everything perfect, have to keep up with the Joneses type people.  They burn out quickly, and want to take people along with them.  If they call you a doormat, just ask them how their job is going and if they enjoy the drive....might shut them up.

Just for the record, Karma and anyone else, I was never comparing the difficulty of being a stay-at-home parent to a primary caregiver working full time.  I was comparing one parent who stays at home to the other working full time and the challenges they face in those mutually exclusive rolls.  If I worked full time and was primarily responsible for the kids, I would certainly expect my spouse (also working full time) to do at least half of the house work. 

I think things got confused there, however,  I will stand behind the fact that some women have a much more stressful time at home with their children, especially if they have more than a couple, than they would at any 9-5 job.  We have a cousin that has five children and she could put many business people to shame.  She runs a tight ship on a very tight budget.  Her children are well behaved, nicely groomed and healthy.  BTW, 3 of the 5 are boys!

I personally know quite a few moms who tried to stay at home and couldn't hack it.  They went back to work because they wanted to not because they needed to.  Again, I don't think this is the general case but I do know that it happens. 

They have put themselves in a position that they *have* to work, and with doing that, they are stressed and bitchy all the time.

I think there is a lot of truth in that statement . . . disclaimer here - there are many women who must work in order for the family to have the minimum amount of income necessary to provide for their families and for them there is no choice . . . however, there is a big tendency for many people (myself included) to just assume that other have it so much better. We all make choices and we are responsible for ourselves. I give up having my own vehicle and getting my nails done but I gain quality time with my children, the ability to be with my husband every day off and lunch hour he has even those that show up with little or no notice, and a generally low level of stress in my life.

What the bitter working women fail to realize is that they could have the lifestyle that the are putting down but secretly envy if they were willing to forgo the $4 lattes, the weekly trips to the mall and the movies, and the Ford Focus that they run around in . . .

We all make sacrifices . . . if the sacrifices you are making aren't worth it to you, then change your priorities (this goes for the stay-at-home mom longing to have the paycheck and adult interaction of a career as well)!

If they call you a doormat, just ask them how their job is going and if they enjoy the drive....might shut them up.

I might have to try that!

We all make sacrifices . . . if the sacrifices you are making aren't worth it to you, then change your priorities (this goes for the stay-at-home mom longing to have the paycheck and adult interaction of a career as well)!

Excellent point! 

When my husband and I were first building and home and family together, I felt a little like I was sacrificing my own identity.  I got a degree but never pursued a career.  I helped start our business instead.  It sure was the right decision!  I truly have a great life because I can live comfortably, be there for my family and friends, and have the option of pursuing a career in the future if I so desire.  Not a bad deal!

I do agree that some homemakers have a lot more stress and work than some 9 to 5 jobs. After all, not homemakers are equal and not all 9 to 5 jobs are equal.

To keep things on the topic, I think a lot of the condescension comes purely from people judging others as they judge themselves. There is a natural tendancy for people to think THEIR way is the right way. So someone whose husband helps out around the house (because they both work) doesn't tend to take the fact that you are a full time homemaker into account and hence thinks that you're just some doormat because you take care of all the domestic chores.

I think my wife gets patronized by working women for mainly one thing: Kitchen stuff. I make no secret that I don't cook or do wash. I don't know where the pots and pans are kept. I don't know how to use the oven. And so, seeing that, they think that I'm just walking all over my wife. They don't think "I wonder if Debbie knows the ins and outs of the projects Brad is working on?" They just instinctively know that in THEIR house THEIR husbands cook dinner a couple times a week and they share doing laundry and such.

But in our case, that would be absurd to expect that. If I'm working 60 hours per week and my wife is at home all day, I think it's reasonable to assume that my wife is going to be doing the cooking and laundry. I take care of much of the outside stuff (or contract it out ). And I try to help clean some parts of the house that aren't my wife's "territory" (my office, the reading room, the lab, etc.). But generally, it's my wife's job to take care of the basic domestic things just as it's my job to take care of the non-domestic things. And it's worked out pretty well for us.

Probably the thing that really pisses me off is when people patronize my wife. I want to say "Hey, my wife's the one with the advanced mathematics degree. Pick a topic, any topic and I bet she is a lot more informed on it than you are."