Deism

My New Spiritual Home

Published on January 19, 2006 By JillUser In Religion

I humbly admit that until introduced to the term "Deism" by Myrrander, I had never heard of it. When Myr set forth that I was deist rather than agnostic, I looked into it and indeed he was right. Friends had always referred to me as agnostic so I accepted that term for lack of knowing a more fitting term.

I believe there is a God in the sense that there is a creator. I don't believe there is an organized religion out there that has it right where God is concerned. I always found organized religions to be too restrictive and circular in thinking. Whenever anyone says they know what God wants, I cringe. I believe God is far too complex for us to "know" anything about.

Agnostic wasn't really a bad fit either since I do believe you can neither prove nor disprove the existance of God. I do know that not all of the organized religions can be right and it is far too exclusive for only one of them to be right. Say christians have it right. What happens to the devoted Jews, muslims, hindus, etc? Is God only choosing some of the population to enlighten? That doesn't jive with me.

I have noticed in my experience that the most devoutly religious people tend to live the most miserable lives. I credit this to the fact that if they didn't believe there would be something better for them in the next life, they wouldn't be able to go on each day of this one.

People say that everything happens for a reason and only God knows the greater purpose. I don't buy that either. Sometimes terrible things happen to wonderful people and there is no reason.

If you have your own opinions regarding things that I have brought up, please share them. However, PLEASE do not come on here and quote scripture or preach to me the error of my ways. I respect the fact that other people have different beliefs than my own and am interested in how they feel about it but I am done with being told why I am wrong in mine and where in the bible it says I'm wrong. You can't convince me the bible is God's word by quoting the bible. That is the circular reasoning that turns me off from organized religion.

So please come here, tell me what you believe, don't believe, or what religion you have faith in but don't preach. I am so done with that that I will remove scripture quotes and ban you.

Comments (Page 7)

KarmaGirl

on Jan 25, 2006

Matter of fact, the way genetics work disproves the story of Noah.

Yeah...that's a tough one. I mean, if that story were true, we (the human race) would all share some of the same genes. If you don't believe in evolution, the story even gets less likely. How did we end up with all the different races and genetics if we all came from the same family (noah and his family)?

JillUser

on Jan 25, 2006

And Aleister Crowley summed it up nicely when he said "Magick is the Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will, using methods not currently understood by science."

That's another good one!

JillUser

on Jan 25, 2006

if that story were true, we (the human race) would all share some of the same genes

More specifically, all men would have the same Y chromosome. That is obviously not the case so Noah and his sons could not have been the only men to have survived the whole flood scenario. But you can believe that those stories are good lessons rather than taking them literally. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with fundamentalists who take the bible literally and claim it can all be proven. It simply isn't so.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 25, 2006

I don't know how many news stories I've heard from the science world that says we have all come from one source. At one point I remember a "Lucy" that was talked about from somewhere in Africa as the mother of us all.

From a Christian standpoint we do all come from Noah's three sons. The Jews are traced to Shem. The Europeans are traced to Japeth and the Africans are traced through Ham. I do believe in evolution only in the sense of micro vs macro.

I think you believe that Jesus lived right? So just going from that. He mentioned Noah and gave credibilty by doing so to the whole flood scene. What do you do with the seashell fossils found on the top of mountains? There are so many facts that point to a cataclysmic flood event that happened way back that demands an answer. I believe that scripture gives it.

And Jill I have lots of non christian friends. I'm not as hard nosed as you suppose. If you really didn't want me to engage in conversation about this....I would honor that request. And I'm really not trying to convince anyone. I'm just giving you my views which differ from yours. If you feel pressure that I'm trying to convert you...please know it's not coming from me. I can't do that anyhow. It's a God thing.

I think your thinking me presumptous really is only that I'm absolutely convinced in my heart and mind. The more I study this book the more I'm amazed at the contents. It's like doing a puzzle. When you find another piece it's amazing how the whole thing fits together. But this takes time and committment and a belief that God has put in my heart.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 25, 2006

If the entire earth flooded at once, where did the water come from, and where did it go to after the flood? We have experienced floods during our lives, and none of them have ever come close to flooding a large part of the world.

First we were promised that the world would never be destroyed again by flood...the rainbow is a reminder of that promise.

The waters came from above and below. There is no record of rainfall before the great flood. So looking at scriptures it says that the fountains of the great deep were broken up and the heavens opened. Many think some sort of earthquakes all over that triggered this canopy to burst open. From the scriptures there was a canopy over the earth...sort of like a greenhouse effect. This helped in the longevity of man. Today with radiation we have no such protection as they were afforded back then.

Mountains were covered forty five feet over the top. The thought also is that before the flood the earth was fairly flat, mountains not as they are today. When the mountains rose up out of this the waters prevailed and settled in the lower basins.

Believe it or not...there are many past sightings of the ark over a period of many years. One of our astronauts went on a mission to try and find this ark. It's believed to be sumerged in ice and snow in the mountains of Turkey. We can't get in there today as it is well protected Muslim territory. But the past sightings all had common stories. The most interesting is that the door was missing. Well if you look at scripture the first thing Noah did was to build an altar to God. I believe he used that door to do so.

There are more than 270 flood stories from all parts of the world. If you fast forward to Peter in the first Century. He wrote about this and said the next time the world will be destroyed by fire. The more I read of this stuff the more I'm convinced it's some sort of nuclear destruction we have coming along with some sort of astroids being sent down. I've not only read the last book I've studied it to some depth. And it's a fascinating subject but more than that I believe it to be true.

JillUser

on Jan 25, 2006

I would like the source of that info because it doesn't strike true to any scientific theories I have ever heard. I do know, however, that they did argon-argon dating on Lucy and think her to be over 3 million years old. Not exactly in line with the Noah story is it.

It just seems like every time I offer up scientific information that disproves something you come up with a "I seem to have heard_____ that supports the story" and gloss over what I had said. You disregarded the scientific eveidence of chromosomal DNA and skipped on over to "from a christian standpoint".

I think you believe that Jesus lived right? So just going from that. He mentioned Noah and gave credibilty by doing so to the whole flood scene.

Again, yes, I believe Jesus lived. I also know that Jesus did not write in the bible anything about Noah. A man relayed that story decades after Jesus had died. As far as fossils on mountain tops, all that proves is that the Earth has gone through a lot of changes over millions of years. Yes, science shows that areas that are now dry were once covered in water. That proves nothing about Noah.

You have a commitment to christianity and a belief in your heart. I am happy for you. God has not put that belief in mine and is the only being that can. Logically the bible makes little sense to me. It is merely a collection of stories that teach morality and perhaps help people discern right from wrong. It also fills people with hope and that is a very good thing.

So, anyone else out there want to chime in?

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 25, 2006

You disregarded the scientific eveidence of chromosomal DNA and skipped on over to "from a christian standpoint".

Well that's because I know nothing about this. I'm not disregarding anything. How can I respond? You also do the same. The ark sightings are not "biblical" but real accounts and you did not respond to that. So what does that mean? It probably means that you have not heard of that. Right?

Again, yes, I believe Jesus lived. I also know that Jesus did not write in the bible anything about Noah. A man relayed that story decades after Jesus had died

Jesus didn't physically write a thing. You're right. Well I take that back. He wrote something in the sand once.

But he did say that he would bring all things into their rememberance. This was so they could write effectively. And you're talking 2-3 decades. I believe he wrote the whole OT and NT...but used men to do so. It says they were moved by the Holy Spirit. How else could 40 men over the course of 1500 years and three continents come up with a work that does not contradict.

We couldn't have an accident with 5 witnesses on the corner give the same story. Yet somehow these men all without knowing each other seem to come up with words that I believe came from the same source.

JillUser

on Jan 25, 2006

The ark sightings are not "biblical" but real accounts and you did not respond to that.

What Ark sightings? There is no proof of there having been an Ark. I do know this because I do read about the subject. Sure, there have been claims but no evidence. People claim to see UFOs all the time too but I don't believe in that either.

As for the DNA, From the Science Spectra:

Genesis, chapter 5, records "the generations of Adam": Adam begat Seth, Seth begat Enosh, Enosh begat Kenan... down to Noah of the flood (Table 1). Translated into modern genetic terms,

Table 1: Before the flood: the generations of Adam according to the book of Genesis

* How did Seth feel, outliving his great, great, great-grandson Enoch by 55 years?
† And how about Enoch, sensing himself slipping away earlier than his father, grandfather, and great-grandfather?

the account could read "Adam passed a copy of his Y chromosome (Figure 1) to Seth, Seth passed a copy of his Y chromosome to Enosh, Enosh passed a copy of his Y chromosome to Kenan"... and so on until Noah was born carrying a copy of Adam's Y chromosome. The Y chromosome is paternally inherited; human males have one while females have none. What is more, the Y chromosome a father passes to his son is, in large measure, an unchanged copy of his own.

Scientifically, if the lineage put forth in the bible is true, then you would be able to trace from Noah's sons back to Adam. But nothing in science shows that man today can be traced back to Noah because all men would have to have a common Y marker and science proves to the contrary.

JillUser

on Jan 25, 2006

How else could 40 men over the course of 1500 years and three continents come up with a work that does not contradict.

Here we go again. Here are a few contradictions:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

100

KarmaGirl

on Jan 26, 2006

First we were promised that the world would never be destroyed again by flood...the rainbow is a reminder of that promise.

No, a rainbow is what is created when water droplets at as a prism and reflect (actually, refract) light.

And, a great bit of the world *has* been destroyed by flood, especially recently. So, I guess he isn't a man of his word, huh?

The ark sightings are not "biblical" but real accounts and you did not respond to that.

They are accounts of what people *think* they saw. How do you know that it's not just a large (fairly) modern ship of some sort? Or, even a rock? If it is buried in ice, it could be anything under there.

I mean, in 87' they claimed that they found the ark (The Turkish Government even said it was!) Then they decided it wasn't. So, now we have *proof* by photos of what they are *now* claiming is the ark. Look! This proves it!:

I mean...who could dispute that type of solid "proof"!???

101

AndyBaker

on Jan 26, 2006

I think all these attempts to “prove” the Bible or any part of Christian faith by appealing to worldly matters are futile, and will only tire the person out and cause friction. (Not that it doesn’t make for an interesting discussion, mind.) KFC said on the other thread that “the whole Christian way is a matter of the heart.” I completely agree with this, but KFC, you’re carrying on as if it’s not a matter of the heart, but rather a matter of proving one’s belief to others until others agree or change their mind. This won’t happen because we all have different points of view. Finding inner peace is far more important than finding appreciation and agreement from others. I personally believe that inner peace is a natural by-product of getting closer to self-discovery and enlightenment, simply due to the nature of life and ultimate reality. Doubts and lack of inner peace signify room for spiritual growth, in my view.

102

AndyBaker

on Jan 26, 2006

(but in the meantime we love the drama, so please feel free to tell me where to go if I sound like a do-goody twat)

103

Ionolast

on Jan 26, 2006

This "teacher" said he was not only the "son" of God.

The original Hebrew says "A son of God." Just one example of how the scriptures were edited to say what some people wanted them to say.

the Utankans?

I think you mean the Mintakans. The episode of TNG "Who Watches the Watchers?" It's my favorite episode of all the Star Trek shows.

As for the flood, in ancient times, people weren't able to travel very far, so to them, the "world" was only what they could see.

104

Dr Guy

on Jan 26, 2006

I think you mean the Mintakans. The episode of TNG "Who Watches the Watchers?" It's my favorite episode of all the Star Trek shows.

Yes. I am reading Into the West and transposed some letters!

105

Ionolast

on Jan 26, 2006

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

This is one of my favorite quotes to (possibly)explain the concept of God. I also heard it as: "Any advanced civilization would appear to be gods to a primitive civilization." It's one of the ideas in that Star Trek episode.

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