typical liberal answer....don't attack the issue, go after the person instead.  If you have a problem with the oil companies making a profit then don't get involved.  Stay out of it.  Burn wood.  Burn coal.  Make your own alternative fuel or go without.   

Scriptures are quite clear, if you do not work you do not eat. 

It is ridiculous.  Well, actually, its conservative propaganda to increase the war on the middle and working classes.  Here are the facts:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/722379.html

Jill, you do in fact make this some sort of black and white issue, polarizing between classes and parties.  You seem to think that the rich are a priveledged group as they have "made it" through their own hard work.  To say nothing, which you don't, of all those that work to make companies even richer. You kvetch about those friends and family you must help, but others, other citizens, you are suspect of them. Somehow, as KFC has also tried to suggest, they are responsible for their own financial mess as they should have been "better prepared" I think were her words.

Instead of pulling together, you worry about your own corner of your utopia, believing somehow that you exist in a vacuum and are not deeply interconnected with the well-being of the rest of the world.  Only a fool believes this today. 

Be well.

You guys must not be reading the same news articles I am, because there's a lot of stuff out there that is just plain offensive to working American families trying to make ends meet.

Literally articles asking us to feel sympathy (!!!) for people who are having to cut back and suffer the indignity of flying First Class instead of via their own private jet.  I don't care HOW they got the money to afford that kind of lifestyle in the first place (and I'm not under the impression that either of you, particularly you, KFC, are in that position of high luxury regardless...I don't begrudge either of you the success you've earned)...taking risks, eating beans, whatever...I just point blank don't feel sympathy for their slight reduction in personal luxury due to current market conditions and/or personal choices that led them to lose money or fear losing money. 

I don't think wealth makes someone more noble or superior (neither does lack of wealth) although our society seems to really idolize the wealthy and of course we can't have our special, special people suffering through a period of slightly less luxury.  Yeah, that's a no go for me. I dislike snobs and I don't have it in me to feel sorry for people who have everything they could want or need.  I don't think that applies to you, Jill (I have NEVER EVER found you as a person to ever be a snob or elitist...you have always as far as I've known you, conducted yourself with grace and class), or you, KFC.  It's not personal. 

But the class warfare stuff...the backlash...that you may be feeling, IMO, has its roots in exactly what I'm describing...panic and tales of conjured up woe regarding the poor, suffering super rich.  It trickles down to you guys I guess.  I dunno.

And KFC, would you expect me to apologize or feel bad for my husband and I providing a higher standard of living for our family than what you had when your children were small?  That seems backwards from the entire point you've been trying to make here.  My husband and I are nearly 30.  We have worked hard to get to where we are, even if it's not in the top income bracket.  Is it wrong that we've been able to provide a working stove and some stability?  We sure as hell sacrifice to have the life we have.

You know nothing about how much I do for others anyway.  I have brought dinner to complete strangers because I heard they were ill or fell on bad times.  I've cared for others kids when they could find child care.  We donate to a list of charities too long to bother with here.  Those charities aren't just ones that have touched us personally.  We believe in helping our fellow man.  So don't preach to me about only caring about my own little corner of the world.

Sodaiho, I mentioned a candidate's policy but made no mention to party and in contrast, you came right out of the gate blaming the Republicans so please don't preach to me about polarizing.

If you are suggesting I'm a fool, you need not visit my blog again.  Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment and will give you the benefit of the doubt.  Please clarify for me.

of course they are.   Notice what you wrote "their OWN financial mess."  Own it. 

Of course there are situations that are unavoidable and no fault of their own like a medical issue or an accident that comes out of the blue.  I'm not speaking of this, I'm speaking about those that lived it up while we struggled and are now complaining because their kids college funds are dwindling.  Well, we didn't have college funds for our kids.  We never had the money to set aside like that.   But our kids made it thru as they worked thru their schooling and we worked as they went along to help as well. 

The mom who was crying about her kids college fund that I was speaking about on my blog should have been better prepared.  If she had enough for her son to make it for four years (as she claimed)  she should have taken it out of the 529 fund and put it in a safe CD not tied to the market as he was about to enter college.  She didn't because most likely it was making pretty good money until the market went south. 

And I can provide plenty of "facts" that dispute that, but regardless, what is this nonsense about conservatives waging war on the middle class.  That is just ridiculous.

Liberals have been telling poor people for decades that they will get them out of poverty....hasn't happened yet.  People make their own wealth, they don't need the government to "spread the wealth" to them.

Well I'm not sure what you're seeing but I've written about those stories I've been watching like the one I mentioned above.  I think we're on the same page TW.  I wrote about the high end Real Estate Agent profiled on Dr. Phil.  I'm sure she was making big bucks before the market crashed.  Her 17 year old (what looked like snobby daughter) seemed aghast that one would suggest she might have to work a bit to help out.  The mom with the two boys was trying to tell us that she didn't wish for her kids to have to contribute to their own education.  She, who wasn't even working, said (gasp) she now has to cut coupons (welcome to my world) and maybe have to get a job.  She has two kids.  One in college and a junior in HS and she's lamenting about working? 

I think we're all feeling the pinch.  I think it's relative.  Of course somebody filthy rich, as you've said, can't feel much with all the extra padding.  We don't have any debt but we can't sell our house, and it's lost value.  So for us we're carrying another burden we would like to be rid of.  We have to pay expenses and taxes on that house which is draining us.  Our IRA's tied to the market have gone down but since it's retirement we're not too worried but still it's not a good feeling to see this. 

I just tend to count my blessings and try not to focus on those things that I can do nothing about.  I may have to readjust things a bit and I'm willing to do so until this storm clears. 

No, but it seemed like you wanted Jill and I to apologize for doing well now when we both may have had it more difficult than you now.   You accused us of being crass and divisive remember? 

When I was 29 I had an 8, 7 and 5 year old and a 12 year old stepson we had on weekends (we had child support as well).  I was babysitting (in that still unfinished house) for three other kids five days a week and on school vacations to make extra money.  We moved into that unfinished house in the spring of 1986  when I was 26.  So by 29 I had lived there 3 years and just moved out of that basement onto the first floor.  It took the better part of 10 years to completely finish the house.  Just about the time we finished it we sold it.  It listed in six days and we were on our way. 

I didn't get the impression you were complaining about "having" to care for others...I read it as your sharing concern you have for those around you who are struggling due to illness, finance, etc.

??

KFC:  I don't really disagree with you guys on this.  We all make choices and live with those choices.  I also don't feel sorry for the douchebags who drew out enormous home equity loans on family homes they inherited and then ended up in foreclosure because they couldn't pay the $500k they financed on a home worth less than $200k.  Greed, on the part of the "poor" and on the part of the "priviledged" alike have contributed to the crisis.  

I think people are pretty angry about the corporate bail-outs, though and THAT has a lot to do with the class warfare feeling going on as well. The media is really feeding this whole thing.  I can't read the news without feeling angry and worried.  Heh, before I was all worked up and worried about the war and now I get to be worried and worked up over the economy.  Nice.

No, I didn't.  Please read that again.  The NEWS ARTICLES I'VE READ REGARDING THE WOES OF THE SUPER RICH ARE CRASS AND DIVISIVE. 

I would also suggest that you and your husband made choices that put you in the position you were in when you were living in poverty at age 29.  You two were obviously responsible and make good choices later that lifted your family out of poverty, but I don't think I understand what point you're trying to make in comparing and contrasting me at age 29 and you at age 29 (and I do have work I do to contribute financially, btw)...??

ETA:  Upon re-reading the crass and divisive comment, I see that I was not very clear in my wording.  By "THAT" I meant the news articles I've been complaining about this entire thread, LOL.

Did these people cry for big oil when there was no profits and gas was $20/barrell?

But what these people do not realize (because they get all their facts from the media who chooses not to write about them) is that these "obscene" profits amount to between 3 and 7% of their investment.  I get 2% on a regular savings account - with no risk. Woudl they be so quick to put money into a bank that gives them only .05% (not 5%), just because they save too much?

The ignorance about the oil profits is just mind boggling.  But I do not expect it to go away until we are all on welfare, and there are no profits for anyone.

I, personally, don't care what CEO's, rich people, etc make. I only care how much I make. I am a firm believer that my wages are not based on me being Hispanic, being in the right or wrong place at the right or wrong time or simple good or bad luck. They are based on how hard I try to raise my wages. I don't dislike or hate rich people, thanks to them I had a part time job last year where apart from making some good money, I was able to drive some of the coolest expensive cars ever and it also gave me close access to them allowing me to make connections that could help me in the future.

You see, I have a goal, and regardless what some might say or believe, I believe I can reach that goal if I try. These rich people I have made connection with could be my chance. I don't have anything against them because I look forward to beiong one of them, even if that notion seems too far fetched for a person in my position. But then me and my brother were both raised in the same house and although he does not make anywhere near $250,000, he is well on his way there. If he can do it, so can I.

It was a Republican government to be sure that went on a spending spree. But it was not a conservative Republican government. That's why they got their rear-ends handed to them in 2006 -- conservatives stopped supporting them.

That said, what does this have to do with what Jill is saying? Whether the government is throwing money at a war or paying for food stamps, it is still being paid for by the small relatively small minority of people.

I agree that we have a moral obligation to take care of ourselves and lend a hand to our fellow citizen. But the federal government is a poor mechanism to do that.  In addition, if you feel so strongly that we should "pay our bills" then let all Americans share in this burden instead of foisting it so overwhelmingly on a certain group simply because they have been more successful?

Moreover, I agree with can go without some stealth bombers but I also agree we can go without a lot of other things the federal government does.

All tax payers are getting a very poor return on their payments.  When one thinks of the public services they make use of -- police, fire department, roads, schools, etc. that's almost totally paid for via state, local, and property taxes.  And yet the federal government loots an immense amount of our produce and for what? Billion dollar bombers and give-aways to people or countries who give us little to nothing in return.

Huh? How is she blaming the poor for driving us into economic disaster?  Do you even read these articles anymore or do you simply use the text entry area as a way to espouse your leftwing agenda?

I like that - "reducing tax breaks". And I support increasing the reverse tax increase agenda.

First off, let's remember that tax breaks are just that - a break in taxes.  The government is merely looting less of the produce created by citizens. It isn't a gift or something.

Why big oil? They run what? A 10% profit?  Where's your outrage at companies earning billions in profits AND at huge margins? What about movie studios that regularly run 30% or more in profits and generate billions? Why not them? They aren't even producing something we technically need.

If you raise taxes on oil companies, we still end up paying for it. If you were being logical, you'd rather tax people or things that produce things that we can opt out on so that the taxes aren't necessarily passed on to us. 

Of course taxing anyone should be a last resort. Every dime the government collects is a dime that was taken by force by a citizen.

Bugs me too. But it's none of my business nor yours unless you owned stock in the company in question. 

Who are these people making it harder for those to make a decent living and have health care? I've got a bunch of torches and pitch forks handy, let's go get them. Just point me in the right direction.

It's always interesting watching someone who's incredibly insular and provincial in their own thinking accusing others of being that way.

Sodaiho, I think you need to take a break from the crystals for a minute and read what is written rather than interpreting them through your ideological prism.

Where to start...

First, I can imagine someone living in an urban area would truly believe that humans can't exist without the community. But outside the liberal bubble, you'll find that people do just find working on their own or in their own small communities.

Second, as someone who is somewhat urban himself, I recognize the need for people to pull together and work together to solve complex social problems. That said, what does the federal government have to do with that? Why must it always been some far off government that you look to to solve your problems?

Let me be perfectly candid, with very few exceptions, most liberals I encounter do squat when it comes to helping their communities. They'd rather outsource their responsibilities and obligations to the federal government. A government that most liberals scarcely contribute to in terms of their taxes (check any presidential exit poll to see who tax payers actually vote).  

Whether it be volunteering to help at school, working on a neighborhood project, giving blood, or working at a charity, it's pretty rare to see a liberal there.  If elections were decided purely by those who contribute or volunteer for charity, it wouldn't even be close.

In the real world, most people who are doing poorly are there due to poor personal decisions. 

As someone who has been blessed with success over the years, I'm more than happy to help others.  I even support paying fairly high taxes because our economy and society require infrastructure that we all benefit from that is hugely expensive and can't be easily handled by private industry.

But where I draw the line is having the government force me at the point of force to take what I produce and hand it to someone else with nothing in return. That isn't compassion, that isn't charity, it's just class warfare run by cynical liberal politicians.