Would Teachers Agree with Zero Tolerance if Applied to Them?

Published on December 5, 2005 By JillUser In Current Events

I have been enjoying the discussions on JU regarding Zero Tolerance. It seems there is some debate about what the term means even though I have read the policy and seen it in action. In a nutshell, here are the rules, here are the punishments. Break rule A even if it is a technicality and you get punishment B.

What if that applied to teachers? I see them breaking rules all the time. Sometimes it is even to the extent of endangering their students. For example, my son's 2nd grade teacher asked me to help out in class last year so I happily obliged. I showed up a little early just so I could see what the teacher wanted me to do before jumping in. I got to the classroom and the kids were unsupervised. I instantly thought the teacher had stepped out for a second (see I made an assumption of positive not negative).

I sat there for a few minutes watching the kids throw stuff around and be pretty crazy (except for my son of course <g>). I didn't discipline anyone because A) Why would they listen to me? and That isn't my responsibility. After about 5 minutes I asked my son where the teacher was. He said that she was at lunch. So I asked if this was a usually thing. He said "Yep!"

I realize I could have gone to find an administrator but wanted to see just how long these kids would be left unattended and see what the teacher had to say when she got back. I sat there for 20 minutes with not a single adult checking on those 2nd graders! When the teacher got back she said that a hall monitor was supposed to check in and maybe she didn't because she probably assumed I was her. What?! There is so much wrong with that!

That is when I had a talk with the principal and she said she was unaware of the situation and assured me they would change the schedule so the kids would be attended at all times. Do you know how many ways those kids could have caused problems or bodily harm in 20 minutes?! I don't trust my kids with the school staff thinking they aren't even there with them for any amount of time.

So should that teacher have been canned? She knew those kids were unattended but didn't try to rectify it. Zero tolerance! She left the kids alone for 20 minutes a day! 7yr old kids! No questions, just start firing! Don't try to solve a problem, just dole out punishment!

Somehow I think teachers would see zero tolerance differently if it was applied to them.

Comments (Page 3)

stevendedalus

on Dec 11, 2005

Oh, and steven, its not based on a single, horrific, incidence. On some of the other threads adressing this topic, many links have been posted in regards to horribly unfair applications of ZT. Its more common than you think.

Thank you for the enlightenment; still, more common does not in the least address the vast, positive tributes to teachers in general.

JillUser

on Dec 12, 2005

Steven, this was directed only at teachers who agree with ZT. I don't see anything positive about teachers who don't want to take each incident that happens with a student case by case rather than lumping them all into
Crime A = Punishment B scenarios. I in no way said that all teachers are bad. I do believe there are a fair amount of bad ones though. I was just trying to point out that it is easier to back up ZT policy when it applies to your student and not you.

JillUser

on Dec 12, 2005

See, that is what is wrong with "Zero Tolerance". There is no judgment call. It doesn't matter why the offense happened or the severity or intent. Action "A" gets punishment "B". No questions, no judgment call. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work in the workforce, so why should it be applied to our children? And, we're talking *public* schools.

Exactly!

JillUser

on Dec 12, 2005

I've worked in a place where I often found myself having to miss lunch in order to take care of customers. She wouldn't die from changing her eating schedule.

I think most people who have worked a "regular" job have had lunch at our desk. I can't imagine being responsible for a room full of kids and not making sure they were being taken care of during my break. I really don't care who made the schedule. It should have been discussed and fixed before the first schedule conflict ever occurred. I would expect that at my office. Why shouldn't I expect that in the public school?

JillUser

on Dec 12, 2005

When students do something in school, swearing at the teacher, being totally disrespectful and disruptive, minors using tobacco, leaving campus during school...skipping classes...what should happen? Granted, its a case by case thing...but its like students seem to have little respect for adults; not just teachers, but adults in general. Kids go to ISS all the time for all sorts of reasons and they go home and beat the mail so the parents never know. What should be done so that the students learn from the choices they make?

I wish I had an easy answer to this question. I totally agree that kids don't seem to respect adults but that is the result of our "don't spank" society. Fear was always a good motivator. The threat of getting the paddle from the principal was hugely affective. Not just the pain, but the humiliation. Do kids get humiliated anymore?

The parents are to blame for a lot of the disrespect. Kids call adults and sometimes even their parents by their first names. The world in general revolves around the kids.

When I was in school you could get kicked out of school entirely for cursing at a teacher. I even saw it happen. Maybe stuff that is actually against the law like smoking tobacco or weed should be handled by the police rather than the school. I heard a mother saying that in our school district if a fight breaks out on a bus, they police are automatically called, they handle the fight participants and escort the other passengers onto another bus. I believe that is the result of kids no longer having any respect for the bus driver and the bus driver not having the authority to kick the kids off the bus route for fighting.

MarcieMoo

on Dec 12, 2005

Could it be that the teacher was told the students would be supervised and didn't know they weren't? I've had that happen before...that STILL doesn't make it okay, but I've been told that something would happen and it hasn't.

I eat lunch every day in my classroom. I love my fellow teachers, but I can't stand the gossip that happens in that stupid teacher's lounge. Blech. I also eat in my classroom in case my students need something or I ask them to stay in to finish some work or to discuss their behavior.

Wow, Jill...its so refreshing to hear that come from a parent who cares about their child and their child's behavior. THANK YOU!

JillUser

on Dec 12, 2005

Could it be that the teacher was told the students would be supervised and didn't know they weren't?

I wish that was the case. The plan she had in place until I stepped in was to have one of the hall monitors peek in from time to time. Not a good plan!

stevendedalus

on Dec 12, 2005

trying to point out that it is easier to back up ZT policy when it applies to your student and not you.

Peace, ZT for teachers; conditional ZT for children.

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!