I saw the movie on Sunday with my husband and my 14 yr old daughter. We were all totally blown away with the emotion it stirred in us....none of which were anti-Semitic emotions, btw. It's my opinion that the movie won't create those feelings in anyone who doesn't already harbor them...and those who do really don't need the excuse of the movie.

I agree that it is pretty violent...but that's because the events it portrays were violent events....scourging and crucifixion weren't a walk in the park!! As I said, we took the 14 yr old, but we did NOT take the 11 yr old, and I am very glad we made that decision. When it comes out on video, if she wants to attempt to watch it with me, then I will allow it...but we'll stop it immediately if she can't handle it.

I don't see anything antisemitic in the movie. I think that much of the negative Jewish reaction may be a reaction to Mel Gibson personally rather than to the film itself. Gibson's father has, I understand, made many statements hostile to Jews, and Mel Gibson is a member of a schismatic Catholic denomination founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefevre, a definite antisemite. This group repudiates documents from the Second Vatican Council, including the religious liberty declaration which stated that Jews cannot be held collectively guilty for the death of Jesus. I understand that the forerunner of this Catholic Traditionalist movement was condemned by Pope Pius the Eleventh for antisemitism, among other things. Perhaps there would be less reaction if the same film had been produced by someone less problematic and controversial.

I understand, made many statements hostile to Jews, and Mel Gibson is a member of a schismatic Catholic denomination founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefevre, a definite antisemite. This group repudiates documents from the Second Vatican Council, including the religious liberty declaration which stated that Jews cannot be held collectively guilty for the death of Jesus. I understand that the forerunner of this Catholic Traditionalist movement was condemned by Pope Pius the Eleventh for antisemitism, among other things.

This is a very insightful statement and I thank you for it. It makes me wonder at the situation if a Jew were to make the same movie and how reaction would be. I watched Mel Brooks 'History of the World, Part I" on the tellie recently and saw how he mocked the Catholic Church and the Inquisition. As comedy he has freedoms a scholar does not have. His representations of Catholics could be seen as anti-Christian. That a Jew did it would apply under the same logic of those who are saying the story is anti-semitic. I don't recall a major conflict over it but there was some statement made at the time to characterizing nuns in bikinis and priests in garters.

The movie, "The Passion..." is based on events of accepted history (by the average person and certainly Christian) and the statement made was, "Let his death be on us and on our children". (I believe this is Matthew 27:65, but don't have a Bible next to me so forgive if not correct) If we are saying Gibson is anti-semitic, we may well be saying the book originating the script, the 'Holy Bible' is likewise anti-semitic. It is an interesting question for me to ponder and I thank you for your insight into Gibson's affiliations as he made the movie.

I thought it was a pretty traditional Christion take on the subject. I personally thought the Roman guards came out the worst--they seemed the most bloodthirsty. And in the end of the movie, the Jews walked into their sanctuary and saw the curtain dividing the sanctuary from the Most Holy Place rent in two; there was a look of horror and dawning comprehension on their faces, which I thought made them look as though they'd realised their error. That's my take on it. Yeah, Pilate was a little weak, and yeah, the Jews (Caiphus mainly) were pretty strong, but that's what the traditional Christian view is. I don't think it's anti-Semitic, and I still wonder if a history written by Jews (Jesus' disciples, Paul excepted) can even be anti-Semitic. If anything, the Bible's history is anti-church-rules-and-beaurocracy, which is what the Pharisees and Sadducees espoused. Funny how so many religions have returned to that.

p.s. the verse Wahkonta is referring to is Matt. 27:25.

I haven't seen the movie, yet.
It seems that every Baptist Church for miles around are filling the theaters on a nightly basis ( fantastic marketing scheme if you ask me )
I heard an interview last night on MSNBC, I do not recall the writer for Vanity Fair being interviewed but he was credited with promoting
the Anti-semantic view.

This guy admitted personally hating, ( yes Hating ) Mel Gibson.

He had authored a book on the falsehood of Mother Teresa, he has skewered the Catholic Church, and every movie Mel has produced.

He not only stated that Mel was Anti-sementic, he also pronounced that Mel was homophobic, and anti-British.

When asked about the particulars of the movie he stated that it was nuances that promoted the anti-sementism, camara angles,
facial features of the extras, lighting, etc......He said that even tho many could not see it, it was there ( like evil verses from Black Sabbath
when played backwards I guess )

He then warned of the backlash to be expected when "The Passion" begins to play in the Middle East. ( so I guess he couldn't envoke
a riot here, so he'll bait the ME now )

I wish I could remember this guys name, he was on "Scarboro Country" around 10pm est last night, he has a british accent ( ? Sir Peter ?) and by all definitions sounded like a nut.

I saw the movie last nite with some friends. I am jewish and have experienced anti-semitism.
I'm not bitter at all towards christians or anyone and do not consider myself overly sensitive to anti-semitism . I think that religion should stay in the
church/synagogue etc. I went to see the movie to see what the fuss on TV and in newspapers was all about.

Claims that people only think that the movie is antisemitic because of statements made by Mel Gibson's father are preposterous,
as there is clear evidence IN THE MOVIE that the story was spun to frame the jewish characters as bloodthirsty jesus-haters.
Anyone who says that the movie was not antisemitic does not know what antisemitism is.

example 1
Early in the movie, Judas receives 30 coins "as promised" for revealing the location of jesus to the high preists. The bag of coins is thrown
to Judas, and in slow motion, as the bag drops to the floor and coins spill out, Judas is filmed ON HIS KNEES, PICKING UP THE COINS.
Anyone who did not recognize this as antisemitic is either sheltered from a world where hateful people will throw coins at a jew and tell him
to pick it up, or are ignorant to a clear poetic license that Mel Gibson took to emphasize the stereotypical money hungry jew.

Example 2
The only people in the movie were either Jewish or Roman. The Romans are the ones that physically perpetrate the scourging and crucifixtion of
Jesus, but the Jews, in my opinion, are made out to be the true bloodthirsty villains in the movie. Before the governor, a crowd completely made up
of Jews
Is calling for Jesus' death. The high, mighty and ever so kind (sarcasm) governor gives the jews a chance to save Jesus, and offers to either free Jesus, or
a convicted serial killer. The Jews, with Jesus, already nearly tortured to death, standing before them with a layer of his skin ripped off his bloodied body,
show no mercy and insist that Jesus be forced to carry a cross for miles outside the city walls where he is to be nailed through his hands and legs and savagely
tortured and bled to death.

I don't claim to be a biblical scholar, nor have i ever read the new testament: BUT CONSIDER THIS. If this is the way that it actually happens in the Bible, then I would
not hesitate in calling the Bible an antisemitic text. This portrayal of a group of talis wearing(a Talis is the traditional jewish cloth garments that the men wore over their heads, still worn
by Jews today), bearded Jews yelling for the further torture of an already agonized and helpless man, (whose only crime was speaking what he believed to be truth)
makes Jews look like absolute animals, tainted by the devil.

In response to some of the other posts
"I still wonder if a history written by Jews (Jesus' disciples, Paul excepted) can even be anti-Semitic"
Jesus's disciples cannot be considered the same Jews as the one's in Jerusalem during Jesus's time
or the one's today, the "Jews" that were Jesus' disciples were basically christians at that point, even if
they were not officially called "Christians" yet. Therefore the arguement that Jesus was a Jew, so how can
a Bible that hails Jesus as messiah be antisemitic?
is really not much of an arguement at all.

" That a Jew did it would apply under the same logic of those who are saying the story is anti-semitic." (in reference to Mel Brooks' history of the world)
A comedic representation of the catholic church is a big step away from a movie claiming to be biblical fact. Comedy is for laughs- not to be taken seriously.
I think if billy crystal starred as Jesus in "The passion of the christ" I might be able to laugh at the antisemitism. When Chevy Chase says a jewish mourning prayer in
"National Lampoons family vacation" i didn't hear any outcries of antisemitism over that.

I'm not bitter towards christians or anyone who was touched by the movie. I am however dissapointed that so many could ignore that alot of the poetic
lisence that was taken in the interpretation of the gospel just went towards portraying Jews in an utterly bad light.

This is exactly why i think religion should stay in the church- people are too absolute in their belief's to side track their heads with critical thought just because
they're witnessing a cheap hollywood portrayal of their god: Idolatry if you ask me.

In conclusion, the word of Mel Gibson is not the word of God, and as far as i'm concerned, neither is the bible. I don't think this movie will inspire anti-semitism
in any person or persons, but only because people are too caught up in their own self-righteous beliefs to wake up and see that they're buying into a whole bunch of spin. Although i didn't enjoy the movie that much because of the excess of violence, I really just can't wait to see the sequel.

He then warned of the backlash to be expected when "The Passion" begins to play in the Middle East. ( so I guess he couldn't envokea riot here, so he'll bait the ME now )

I heard this morning that it won't even be shown in Israel, to avoid the sort of "is it or isn't it" fighting that's currently going on in this country.

example 1Early in the movie, Judas receives 30 coins "as promised" for revealing the location of jesus to the high preists. The bag of coins is thrown to Judas, and in slow motion, as the bag drops to the floor and coins spill out, Judas is filmed ON HIS KNEES, PICKING UP THE COINS.Anyone who did not recognize this as antisemitic is either sheltered from a world where hateful people will throw coins at a jew and tell him to pick it up, or are ignorant to a clear poetic license that Mel Gibson took to emphasize the stereotypical money hungry jew.

While you may see this as anti-semitic, I have to say that you are the first Jewish person, either online or IRL, who I have ever heard mention this scene in reference to that. So perhaps it is not that we are living sheltered lives, but that you are living with a more cynical view of life?

Before the governor, a crowd completely made up of JewsIs calling for Jesus' death.

Maybe that's because that's who would have been in Jerusalem during Passover...a huge crowd of JEWS? Other than the Romans, who were occupying the city, I would imagine most other people avoided Jerusalem during the Holy Days, to avoid the huge crowd of people who came there from all over the area to commemorate the exodus from Egypt.

I don't claim to be a biblical scholar, nor have i ever read the new testament: BUT CONSIDER THIS. If this is the way that it actually happens in the Bible, then I wouldnot hesitate in calling the Bible an antisemitic text.

Then you are just going to have to consider the Bible anti-semitic, because that IS how the events are portrayed in the Bible, and have been for thousands of years.

I'm not bitter towards christians or anyone who was touched by the movie. I am however dissapointed that so many could ignore that alot of the poeticlisence that was taken in the interpretation of the gospel just went towards portraying Jews in an utterly bad light.

Only one of the things you mentionded was actually poetic license taken by Mel...and he has admitted that the movie is BASED on the Gospels, not completely, one hundred percent taken from them....which allows for a small amount of poetic license. None of us were there to know EXACTLY what occurred....nor were the writers of the Gospels...so it's all anyone's best guess.

Anti-semantic view

That's hilarious! Dynosaur: No flame, realize it's probably just a typo, but what an expression! Definately a keeper.

This is exactly the input I was hoping to draw out. Thanks for your opinions!

TO: Poetmom99

"I have to say that you are the first Jewish person, either online or IRL, who I have ever heard mention this scene in reference to that"

If Judas on his knees picking up the coins that the priests threw at him condescendingly wasn't a reference to the antisemitic stereotype of "cheap jew",
why couldn't he have simply caught the bag of coins? I don't think cooincidence plays much role in a sophisticated movie like this one. I do admnit though,
I am cynical.

In reference to your comments on my comments about poetic lisence, I guess I'm just bothered that a text, that can hardly be considered a primary
source, that was written as late as over a century after the events took place can be used to create a film that a large percent of people viewing can so easily
take as fact.

I agree with you, it is anyone's best guess, but Mel Gibon's guesses, it appears, frequently took the appearence of, maybe not flat out anti-semitism, but
an overall air of "wow, how could the jews kill the messiah?". As I understand it there are several gospels, and each one portrays the same events slightly
differently; to make a movie, one would have to pick and choose passages from each to create a coherent picture. It looks like Mel Gibson chose to take the
passages that put the Jews most at fault, and I have a problem with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. How could you bring a 14 year old to that movie?
p.s. That's just sick, admiration from pity is a cheap way to make someone believe: Scare-tactic-religion

The line of 'anti-semantic' is very good, true. I am guilty of this often quite.

jesse47: Since you haven't read the New Testament - and this is mentioned in my reply below - here is an excerpt of some verses to help you see what is contained therein. Hope it moves you to study it further:
Wahkonta on "The Passion..."

By: Wahkonta Anathema
Posted: Thursday, February 26, 2004 on conspiracy-history-news.JoeUser.com
Message Board: Religion


I have read a lot of posts and reviews on the “Passion..” movie and the controversy it is causing. I think this is a great thing and is causing people to re-examine their relationship with their God and Savior. I too have gone back and opened my dusty ‘Holy Bible’ to review and ask some questions raised by the movie and th discussion in the ‘controlled-media’. One such question is: Is the death of Jesus in any way attributable to the Jews of Jesus time? Here I will, with purposeful brevity (relying on but one gospel, that of the Book of Matthew), provide my understanding based upon a source many of us agree is relevant to the issue, The Holy Bible.

We should start things off with the scripture as to the very birth of Jesus to put his life in perspective. Let’s go to Matthew Chapter 2:

We find the ‘wise men’ asking, “Where is the child who has been born to be king of the Jews?...Now we have come to worship him.”3.) “When King Herod (King of Judea) heard about it he was very upset. Everyone in Jerusalem was troubled too. So Herod called together all the Chief Priests of the people (Jews). He also called the teachers of the law. He asked them where the Christ child was to be born. In Bethlehem in Judea.” They replied. “This is what the prophet has written. He said, ‘But you, Bethlehem in the land of Judah, are certainly not the least important among the towns of Judah. A ruler will come out of you. He will be the shepherd of my people Israel.” (Micah 5:2)
Herod then attempts to secretly trick those who know into telling him when they find Jesus saying, …”I can go and worship him too”.(verse8) God subsequently tells the wise men to not return to Herod to tell him Jesus whereabouts when they find him and Jesus and his family escape the Jewish leader and go to Egypt.

When Herod finds out, …”He became very angry. He gave orders concerning Bethlehem and the area around it . All the boys two years old and under were to be killed. …In this way, the words the prophet Jeremiah spoke came true. He said, “{a voice is heard in Ramah, It’s the sound of crying and deep sadness. Rachel is crying over her children. She refuses to be comforted because they are gone.” (Jeremiah 31:15)
Even after Herod dies to fulfill another prophecy, his Son, Archelaus, was King of Judea. So Joseph goes to Nazareth, fulfilling yet another prophecy that, “He will be called a Nazarene”.

In Matthew Chapter 5, Jesus gives his re-interpretation of the Commandments of the Jews, which are at odds with the practice of the rabbis of his day. He does not hold them changed, but says they are not enough as practiced. That contrary to “Do not commit murder” he says “Anyone who is angry with his brother will be judged, for example.

Now comes John the Baptist, a hermit dressed in camel’s hair. He is the one who will prophecy the birth of Jesus as the event of the messianic birth Jews have awaited. John, a godly man first, “Saw many Pharisees and Saducees coming to where he was baptizing. He said to them, “You are like a nest of poisonous snakes! (emphasis in the book I cite from) Who warned you to escape the coming of God’s anger? Produce fruit that shows you have turned away from your sins. Don’t think you can say to yourselves, ‘Abraham is our father.’ I tell you, God can raise up children for Abraham even from these stones. The axe is already lying at the roots of the trees. All the trees that don’t produce good fruit will be cut down. They will bet thrown into the fire. I baptize with water,…after me, one will come who is more powerful than I am. And I’m not fit to carry his sandals. (3:11).

Subsequent to this, Herod has John arrested and then beheads him for a birthday present for his wife (Mark 6:14-29)

Jesus draws more ire of the Jewish leaders when he says, “When you pray, do not be like those who only pretend to be holy. They love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners. They want to be seen by others….They have received their reward.” Matthew 6:5) He also says those leaders who fast in public also, “received their complete reward.” (6:16) Throughout this time, Jesus is gaining quite a following in Judea, healing and assisting many Jews.

When, in Chapter 15, some Pharisees and teachers come to Jerusalem to quiz Jesus ( to learn or teach him, NO to trick him so they can have him imprisoned or killed), “They asked, ‘ why don’t your disciples obey what the leaders teach? Your disciples don’t wash their hands before they eat!’ Jesus replied, ‘ and why don’t you obey God’s command? You would rather follow your own teachings!...You make the word of God useless in order to follow your own teachings. You pretenders! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you. He said, ‘These people honor me by what they say. But their hearts are far away from me. Their worship doesn’t mean anything to me. They teach nothing but human rules.’ (Isaiah 29:13)

Jesus then goes on to say, in response to his disciples question, “Do you know that the Pharisees were angry when they heard this?

“There are plants that my father in heaven has not planted. They will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them. The Pharisees are blind guides. If a blind person leads another who is blind, both of them will fall into a pit.(Matthew 15:1-14) Jesus later explains to them, it is not the clean hands god cares about, only man. Adultery, murder, sexual sins, stealing, false witness, are the things that come out of a person and make them unclean.
Speaking on the Jewish leadership later, Jesus warned his disciples to, “Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”(Matt 16:5-12)

Then comes the ‘great confession, in which Jesus asks the question, “Who do men say that I am?” Then, “Who do YOU say that I am?” To which Simon Barjona says, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Note: it is at this verse, Matt.16:18 that the entire Catholic Church finds its origin, using a play on translation and altering their own version of the Holy Bible to achieve the end of making a Pope of Simon Barjona. Hint, it is found in the words Petra and Petros)

Now for anyone who says I am anti-semitic or wrongly interpret scripture let’s see what Jesus himself had to say on this subject of his impending death.
“From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples what would happen to him…There (Jerusalem) he must suffer many things from the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law. He must be killed and on the third day rise to life again. (Matt 16:21 Jesus is transfigured with Moses and Elijah before his disciples with the voice of God speaking of his favor for Jesus in chapter 17. Another event Jews do not believe happened) Jesus tells them that John the Baptist was actually a re-incarnation of Elijah, and he will be made to suffer as John was.

In another attempt to trick Jesus with scripture riddles, so they can have him arrested and killed, the Pharisees return to quiz Jesus as to marriage, again failing in chapter 19.
In yet another truth of the Holy Bible at Matthew 20:18, he tells his disciples, “We are going up to Jerusalem, the Son of man will be handed over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. THEY WILL SENTENCE HIM TO DEATH. THEN THEY WILL TURN HIM OVER TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT JEWS.” (Jesus words not mine)

In chapter 21 Jesus enters Jerusalem again fulfilling prophecy as he enters on an ass. “See, your King comes to you. He is gentle and riding on an ass.” (Zecheriah 9:9). Jesus is a popular man to those who encounter him and they travel with him shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!”. This fulfills another old testament prophecy of the Jewish holy book, at Psalm 118:26.

At this time Jesus enters the temple area of the Jews and overturns the tables of the money exchangers. “It is written that the Lord said, ‘My house will be called a house where people can pray’. (Isaiah 56:7) But you are making it a ‘den for robbers.” Jeremiah 7:11 The chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did. They also saw the children in the temple area shouting, ‘Hosanna to the Son of David!’ But when they saw all this, they became angry.” (Matthew 21:15
When asked about this, Jesus replies, “Haven’t you read about it in scripture? It says, ‘ You have made sure that children and infants praise you’. (Psalm 8:2)

Being every bit as versed in scripture as they, Jesus then answers a Jewish leader question with his own, asking, “Where did John’s baptism come from? Was it from heaven? Or did it come from men?” (matt 21:25) Realizing they cannot answer and win the day, they say they don’t know, whereupon Jesus declines to answer their question of who gave him authority to perform miracles, another trick they failed in.

Now Jesus tells of how, “ The stone the builders didn’t accept has become the most important stone of all (the cornerstone)…The kingdom of God will be taken away from you. It will be given to people who will produce its fruit….The chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus stories. They knew he was talking about them. So they looked for a way to arrest him. But they were afraid of the crowd. The people believed Jesus was a prophet.” Matthew 21:45,46).

Now Saducees come to try to trick Jesus and have him imprisoned or killed yet again. In Matthew chapter 22, we read, “..They do not believe that people rise from the dead.” After a protracted trick question, Jesus replied, “You are mistaken, because you do not know the scriptures. And you do not know the power of God. When the dead rise, they won’t get married. And their parents won’t give them to be married. They will be like angels in heaven. What about the dead rising? Haven’t you read what God said to you? He said, ‘I am the God of Abraham. I am the God of Isaac. And I am the God of Jacob (exodus3:6) He is not the god of the dead. He is the god of the living.” We further read, “When the crowds heard this, they were amazed by what he taught.” (Matthew22:23-33).
It goes on and on with the Jewish leaders constantly attempting to trick Jesus and have him imprisoned or killed. How much do you want to hear? Okay, some more then.
“The Pharisees heard that the Sadducees weren’t able to answer Jesus. So the Pharisees got together. One of them was an authority on the law. So he tested Jesus with a question. ‘Teacher,’ he asked, ‘ Which is the most important commandment in the law?’ Jesus replies correctly to Love God and your neighbor. Then he poses one of his own to them. He asks, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” The son of David.” they replied. He said to them, “Then why does David call him Lord? The Holy Spirit spoke through David himself….So if David calls him Lord, How can he be David’s son? No one could answer him with a single word. From that day on, no one dared to ask him any more questions.”(Matthew 22:41-46)

Jesus then JUDGES THE PHARISEES AND THE TEACHERS OF THE LAW:

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat….don’t do what they do. They don’t practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on other peoples’ shoulders. But they themselves aren’t willing to lift a finger to move them. Everything they do is done for others to see. On their foreheads and arms they wear little boxes that hold Scripture verses. They make the boxes very wide. And they make the tassels on their coats very long.

I won’t post the entire chapter though it is a scathing judgement that makes the American Declaration of Independence seem trifling by comparison. He lays into the Jewish leadership like no one before or since (not even Mel Gibson). It’s no surprise the Rabbis to this day try to dissuade the Jews from even opening the New Testament, for inside is this truthful recounting of the Jewish leadership and rabbinic practices.

Those who are saying I am a racist or extremist, remember these are the words of the Holy Bible, Jesus (who was a Jew) and that I am not a Christian. These are just the historical facts people. Read it and weep.

He says, “They love it when people call them ‘rabbi.’ But you shouldn’t be called ‘rabbi.’…Do not call anyone on earth ‘father’(as in father jones of the Catholics)…How terrible it will be for you, teachers of the law and Pharisees! You shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter….How terrible for you, teachers of the law and Pharisees! You pretenders! You travel everywhere to win one person to your faith. Then you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are….You are blind and foolish! Which is more important? Is it the gold? Or is it the temple that makes the gold Holy?...You blind men! Which is more important? Is it the gift? Or is it the altar that makes the gift Holy?...You pretenders!...you have not practiced the more important things of the law, like fairness, mercy, and fathfulness…You blind guides! You remove the smallest insect from your food. But you swallow a whole camel!...You clean the outside of the cup and dish. But on the inside you are full of greed. You only want to satisfy yourselves. Blind Pharisee! How terrible for you…You are like tombs that are painted white. They look beautiful on the outside. Buton the inside they are full of the bones of the dead….It is the same with you. On the outside you seem to be doing what is right. But on the inside you are full of what is wrong. You pretend to be what you are not.

In a relishing and severe slam Jesus finishes with, :” You nest of poisonous snakes! How will you escape from being sentenced to Hell? So I am sending you prophets, wise men, and teachers. You will kill some of them. You will nail some to a cross. Others you will whip in your synagogues. You will chase them from town to town. So you will pay for all the godly people’s blood spilled on earth. I mean from the blood of Zecheriah, the son of Berekiah. Zecheriah was the one you murdered between the temple and the altar. …Jerusalem! Jerusalem! You kill the prophets and throw stones in order to kill those who are sent to you. Many times I have wanted to gather your people together….But you would not let me! Look, your house is left empty. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’[Psalm 118:26]

Later, speaking of the Jewish faith under the present leadership Jesus says, (an ex. Of a servant left to tend the stead while master away who abuses it) “But suppose that servant is evil…suppose he begins to beat the other servants. …The master of that servant will come back on a day the servant doesn’t expect him. He will return at and hour the servant does not know. Then the master will cut him to pieces. He will send him to the place where pretenders go. There people will sob and grind their teeth.” (Matthew 24:48-51)

The rest I’ll not cover extensively, as it makes me a bit emotional to read and admit. It does not matter to me if Jesus was a Jew or a man or a god. He was the world’s greatest revolutionary to ever, ever live. He is model to the likes of Ghandi, King, Jr. and the very calling of his name evokes powers greater than a 500 year old rattle of a shaman. It is packed with dense spiritual power. The very sounding of his name is as a note of synchronized harmonic that rings through the spheres of the heavens and resonates with all that is good and just in the universe. His is a metaphorical power even if one does not accept Christianity or any religion at all.

Jesus was betrayed by a Jew, Judas, known as Iscariot, who was actually of a sect of Jewish revolutionary that wanted all out war and death to Romans and the liberation of Jews. Judas became disillusioned with Jesus refusal to fight with swords and so betrayed him. Of course, God decide when he made the universe it would happen so Judas could no more NOT do so than he could control his own birth. As it says in the Bible. “Who will judge God?” His reasonings are his and we have no sense of right in respect to his judgement.

Well, we’ve reached that point and if I don’t put up I guess I have to shut up. So here it is:
Contrary to popular belief, as fed by film depictions, Jesus was not arrested by Romans, but Jews of the Jewish High Priest, Ciaphas, at Gethsemane . Appearing before Ciaphas, Jesus is asked, “Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” (Matthew 26:63). “Yes..” said Jesus.
[MATTHEW CHAPTER 26 VERSES 65 AND 66]
to wit:
65. Then the High Priest tore his clothes. He said, ‘ He has spoken a very evil thing against God! Why do we need any more witnesses? You have heard him say this evil thing. What do you think?’
66. HE MUST DIE! They answered.

It goes on to recount how these High Priests and Jewish leaders then: spit on his face, hit him with their fists, slapped him.
68. They said, “ Prophecy to us, Christ!! Who hit you?”

In chapter 27 we read: “All the chief priests and the elders of the people decided to put Jesus to death.”

You can read chapter 27 for yourself and see how the choice of releasing Barabbas or Jesus was manipulated by the Jewish leaders into making it Barabbas and to kill Jesus. Pilates wife said to have nothing to do with this man Jesus as “he is not guilty”(Matt 27:19) Pilate then asks, “ Then what do I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” …They all answered, “CRUCIFY HIM!”(Matthew27:22).

Folks, it is plain as day. But don’t take my word for it. Here’s what the Jews themselves said of Jesus being murdered at their demand:
“WE AND OUR CHILDREN WILL ACCEPT THE GUILT FOR HIS DEATH!” (Matthew chapter 27 verse 25).

So what am I saying? Folks, you can’t have it both ways. Either Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the Living God; or he is just a guy the Jews rightfully had murdered for violation of Jewish law. You are either a Christian who sees what the Holy Bible says and believes it, or a Jew who believes the Messiah has not yet come and Jesus was just a trouble maker who got what he deserved. You can’t be both and the two religions are directly UNreconcilable, and opposite to each other precisely because of the death of Jesus and how it occurred.
For thousands of years Jews have been persecuted for the Holy Bible pronouncements exactly as I’ve recounted them here. Is the scripture a lie? Is the word of the Christian God false?

Having said all of this, I feel called to report that I do not believe that the Holy Bible is correct in its recounting. I do think Jesus lived. I do think he was THE revolutionary to end all, and his example is a study of revolutionary thought that is approached only by Mao for breadth of scope and effectiveness. I think there is much more to the story of Jesus and it is contained in the gospel of Thomas, the Dead Sea Scrolls ,Nag Hammadi, and in the life of Paul, and Jesus’ brother; the head of the revolutionary movement in Judea, James. Given a chance, I can even show to you the reason for the whole epoch of Jesus life, and that Paul (not a Jew)murdered the head Jewish revolutionary leader, James, by hitting him in the head with a rock.

I do go on, and this is the ultimate invite to controversy I know. My study in this area is not shallow though. I’ve read the Holy Byblos (that is what it is properly called. I know because I’ve studied it that much) cover to cover several times and studied on this as thoroughly as Spirit has decided I should. I do love Jesus as a brother and always will. It is through his name and with aid of Spirit I communicate with my God. For me, He is the greatest of the greats in known human history. I also believe in God. I do not put money on anyone’s plate who sells religion for a living. I am no respector of men. Am I a fool or wise? I don’t decide. I only say that when I pray, I first thank my God for the wisdom to fear him.

Feel free to comment or e-mail: wahkonta@graffiti.net

none of what you just said is historical fact. You contradict yourself when you say "I feel called to report that I do not believe that the Holy Bible is correct in its recounting"
Why are you quoting scripture that you don't believe in to support your point? Just as Mel Gibson spun his movie to portray certain people in certain ways by using certain information of his choice, Matthew did the same
in writing his gospel to attract as broad a following as possible for his young, new religion.

I also think just about every line you quoted is confusing when taken out of context and really hasn't proved much to me except that this version of the bible wanted to call Judaism on some accused fundamental flaws. The way you talk about Jesus and quote the scripture, I have trouble believing you're not a Christian. Not that it matters- I'm Jewish only by birth. Religion has been blown way out of proportion, and if Jesus' accusation against the Jewish hierarchy of his time were true, then I have to say that we haven't come such a far way from any of that, religion continues to create more problems than it solves: And, for all you Kurt Vonnegutt fans out there, religion is really just a scathing granfalloon.

I think calling anything in the Bible or Gospel "historical fact" is blasphemy. You should be crucified.