The adventures of Mommy woman
Published on October 28, 2004 By JillUser In Politics

I recieved this in an email from a dear friend.  I already checked it out on snopes.com so I figured I would share it.  It articulates, from a well experienced military member, the character deficiency that I loathe in Senator Kerry.  I cringe every time I hear someone say that Kerry was brave for giving his Senate testimony when he returned from the war.

Here you go:

Bring it on, John
> by Oliver North
>
> August 27, 2004
>
> "Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question
> my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded
> attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our
> service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry


> Dear John,
>
> As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George
> Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your
> military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who
> servedb honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the
> president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.
> I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals
> or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I
> only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could
> stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree
> with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got
> more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many
> medals as they deserved.
>
> This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either,
> John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home.
> There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who
> did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young
> Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war
> because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job
> isn't finished." Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968.
> Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so.
> Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in
> Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you
> thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all
> that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want
> to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.
>
> But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having,
> John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even
> Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.
> When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and
> wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and
> were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all,
> John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of
> committing terrible crimes and atrocities.
> On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations
> Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally
> raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones
> to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
> randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of
> Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
> generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted
> on television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as
> thousands of other soldiers have committed."
>
> And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any
> other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of
> prisoners, the killing of prisoners."
> Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us
> carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And
> for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who
> suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of
> American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured
> because of you, John:
> Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody
> when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that
> for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He
> wasn't released until March 14, 1973.
>
> Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody
> for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner about
> being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March
> 4, 1973.


> Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as
> solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He
> remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.
> John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your
> claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of
> standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a
> bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you
> are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way,
> you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in
> chief.


> One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say
> something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I
> caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to
> help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless
> and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want
> to apologize to them and their families."
> Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?
>
> Oliver North is a nationally syndicated columnist, host of the Fox News
> Channel's War Stories and founder and honorary chairman of Freedom
> Alliance.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Oct 28, 2004
Oliver North is traitorous leech that sold out lives across the globe for his own averice. He had no morals, consciense or sense of right or wrong. He was stupid enough to get caught with his hand in the cookie jar. And undoubtedly pulled more than a few Lewinskies on GHWB. If you want to raise him to the level of an ally your saying more about yourself, than Ollie is saying about Kerry.

When the right starts reaching into the past and all they can muster is Ollie north as a staunch supporter, then I can finally relax, the election is over. The right has begun it's death throes, and they party can begin. Yet another 1 term president from Texas, at least LBJ went out on his own terms. It's hard to believe that only a few weeks ago I was undecided, but GWB refused to come clean, ask for my forgiveness and a second shot. I tried hard to like him, but it's hard to like a guy too stupid to know he has to be humble for a few months to keep his job. He's like the guy in your office that has one bad idea after another, but won't listen to anyone elses. Eventually he wonders why he's the only one working on his projects.
on Oct 28, 2004
drmiler,
I don't mind at all!
Use to your hearts content.
on Oct 28, 2004

Ok, so if the problem is the writer, why not eliminate the writer?
Why not read it as if someone else wrote it? What would it take, to see the truth in the writing, for those of you that can't trust ollie?
Lets say someone more trustworthy write this piece.
What would be your platform then? I truly think you'd find something else to pick on. To make this piece less credible for you.
Simply, the facts are there, go find them yourself. Why wait for someone to find them for you and then nit pick because you don't like the source.
Eliminate the writer.....YOU become the writer.
on Oct 29, 2004
Simply, the facts are there, go find them yourself.


I did, I've been to GOP.com, gerogebush.com and johnkerry.com. I have read what each has said and done countless hours of research. I choose John Kerry. You can have any opinion you want, and cast your vote any way you want. I've done the hard work of making a decision based on the picture each canidate has painted for me. I'm solidly intrenched in the middle class, and will be for the next 4 years no matter who is president. So I'm choosing the guy who wants to deal with me directly, not the guy who wants me to eat the scraps of the Upper class's smorgasbord.

Kerry has turned the corner, Bush will lose, and he can blame it not only on the missing explosives, but on Condelessa Rice's memo that stated on October 7th, that if the press got wind of it the ball game was over. I'm tapping the keg now, a Kerry victory is eminent. I don't think Osamas head on a stick in the rose garden could save them now, I think a lot of people expect word of bin Laden's capture any day now as a staged last ditch effort to break the election in Bush's favor. There will be a massive assault on the Insergents in Iraq this weekend. The british troops are moving into bagdad to replace the american troops on the way to Fallujha. Please pray for those men and women that have become the political Pawns of a desperate president.
on Oct 29, 2004
Please pray for those men and women that have become the political Pawns of a desperate president.


I don't see how our military men and women have become political pawns, by President Bush. Please explain.
I could see this with Kerry, though.

I truly am puzzled, how can you ignore Kerry's constant flip flops, and the lies? It's one thing to have things on Kerry's website, but when asked direct question about certain issues, he never gives a straight answer. Does he truly know what he stands for? Maybe he should check out his site and get them straight.

I can say this, kudos to you for doing the research. So many people would rather sit in their living rooms and watch Dan Rather or Charles Gibson tell them who to vote for. I have heard so many spins I am really dizzy!
on Oct 29, 2004

Reply #35 By: Cappy1507 - 10/29/2004 12:04:46 AM
Simply, the facts are there, go find them yourself.


I did, I've been to GOP.com, gerogebush.com and johnkerry.com. I have read what each has said and done countless hours of research. I choose John Kerry. You can have any opinion you want, and cast your vote any way you want. I've done the hard work of making a decision based on the picture each canidate has painted for me. I'm solidly intrenched in the middle class, and will be for the next 4 years no matter who is president. So I'm choosing the guy who wants to deal with me directly, not the guy who wants me to eat the scraps of the Upper class's smorgasbord.

Kerry has turned the corner, Bush will lose, and he can blame it not only on the missing explosives, but on Condelessa Rice's memo that stated on October 7th, that if the press got wind of it the ball game was over. I'm tapping the keg now, a Kerry victory is eminent. I don't think Osamas head on a stick in the rose garden could save them now, I think a lot of people expect word of bin Laden's capture any day now as a staged last ditch effort to break the election in Bush's favor. There will be a massive assault on the Insergents in Iraq this weekend. The british troops are moving into bagdad to replace the american troops on the way to Fallujha. Please pray for those men and women that have become the political Pawns of a desperate president


What I'd like to know is how you can overlook treason?
on Oct 29, 2004
I've done the hard work of making a decision based on the picture each canidate has painted for me.


Now thats the problem. Every thing Kerry feeds you is exactly what you want to here. If you pro life, he is your guy. If your anti-Abortion, he is your guy. If your for the war he is your guy, If you are againest the war he is your guy. (I know it's a standard line, but it is still true.) Do your research somewhere other then the campaign sites. All of then are saying what they want you to hear. Come back and tell me your informed when you have done real research and not the hook, line and sinker that you just swallowed.

The man is the perfect politician. He says he will give you a gold mine, but then you will receive the shaft along with a tax bill.

Bush is not much better, but at least he will stays the course. Weather you like the course or not. Kerry can't stay the course on anything, the next time it is politicaly better for him to change position just because of a poll: Boom, your left holding the bag or as a POW the receiving end of a betryal. (That's why he has VERY little support from military members).

That's My Two Cents
on Oct 29, 2004
Since you don't want to accept the statement from Oliver North....then, how about from these guys:

Ken Cordier - POW 5 yrs 7 months
Jack Fellows - POW 6 yrs 6 months
Ralph Gaither - POW 7 yrs 3 months
Paul Galanti - POW 6 yrs 7 months
Carlyle Harris - POW 7 yrs 10 months
Gordon Larson - POW 7 yrs 10 months
Tom McNish - POW 6 yrs 6 months
Robinson Risner - POW 7 yrs 4 months
Jack Van Loan - POW 5 yrs 9 months
James Warner - POW 5 yrs 5 months
Ron Webb - POW 5 yrs 8 months
Leo Thorsness (Medal of Honor) - POW 5 yrs


Ask them about John Godsend Kerry....Ask them (the ones that actually WERE POWs) whether or not Kerry's Senate "testimony" did anything to them.....and while you are at it...why don't you ask the many many vets that came back and was spit upon and verbally assaulted by Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War so-called anti-war group. Ask these men what it was like to hear "one of their own" accuse them (falsely) of being a War Criminal....safely here in the States. Ask them what it was like to stand 97 hours in a circle drawn by chalk, then fall from exhaustion, then beaten because you fell....while Godsend Kerry waltzed around prepping his political career....buddying around with another traitor, Jane Fonda....

Ask these ("War Criminal") men about the beatings and the torture they recieved from the "benevolent" North Vietnamese. Ask the vets about hearing their fellow soldiers being skinned alive when captured, and not being able to do anything about it...cause their fallen were lost in the jungles....after all, it was our soldiers that "deserved" it, right? I mean, that is what Kerry said, right? Ask these men what their greatest fear in Vietnam was....was it getting killed? Or was it being captured alive by the "peaceful" NVA? And while you are at it....ask these men what it was like to watch their buddy walk over to a little Vietnamese boy, to give him a chocolate bar or a stick of bubble gum...only to see his "war criminal" buddy be blown to bits because the boy had bombs strapped to him by the VC. Go ahead....ask them.

Ask these men how much longer they believe that Kerry's aiding the enemy held them in Hanoi Hilton. Ask the men that turned down a 3rd Purple Heart, just so they could stay in country and fight next to their brothers, how much those metals meant? Probably not as much as the "vets" that threw theirs over the White House walls. Afterall, those 3 purple hearts probably didn't mean much to Godsend, either....but...oh wait....he threw someone else's over the walls.....

Ask these men what it felt like to have your country rabidly turn on you, at the call of a "decorated" soldier.....Go on....ask them. Why won't you ask them? Ask them what it felt like to feel the spit of those that chose not to do their duty to their country dribble down their face, and fall on their ribbons....ribbons that they held dear, not ribbons that they would feel the need to throw over the White House walls. Ask them. Ask them what it was like to see the banners that read "babykiller"....and "No Parade for Murderers".....go on.....ask them. Why don't you ask them?

Ask them how it felt to go through unimaginable torture to uphold their honor, and try not to submit and protest what they believed in, what they fought and bled for....while Godsend Kerry was in a nice Senate room, calling those very soldiers War Criminals. Ask them what it felt like to have Americans come and sing to them songs that portrayed them as War Criminals and deserving of any torture that the "loving" NVA deemed as necessary. Ask them what it felt like to have an audio tape of Jane Fonda play to them in their rooms, telling them that they were War Criminals, guilty of committing atrocities, and that they deserved to die in those cells....Go on...ask them. Why don't you ask them?

I know why you don't ask them....now, you tell me why you don't ask them....
on Oct 29, 2004
I guess since I respect John Kerry's anti-war activities, then I really don't care what a criminal like Oliver North has to say about them.
on Oct 29, 2004

I guess since I respect John Kerry's anti-war activities, then I really don't care what a criminal like Oliver North has to say about them.

Well I guess that says it all then.

on Oct 29, 2004
Myrrander.....my respect for you has totally been lost. I mentioned in another thread that I enjoyed reading many of your posts.....but now? For you to accept and respect a man's position that involved having unauthorized peace talks with an enemy, and condemning our soldiers of war crimes.....words really cannot describe what i feel about you right now, and your views on Kerry's actions after the war. It brings tears to my eyes, really.....so sad.
on Oct 29, 2004

Reply #40 By: Myrrander - 10/29/2004 10:21:09 AM
I guess since I respect John Kerry's anti-war activities, then I really don't care what a criminal like Oliver North has to say about them.


I'm sorry but I have to agree with *MythicalMino* Anyone one who would willingly respect a traitors activities can't be all there in the head! And as such any respect that I had for you is now gone.
on Oct 29, 2004
Well, I just can't agree with this whole "treasonous" idea. If the man was against the war, he had every right to say so. And if you'd rather respect Oliver North, a man who lied to the US Congress, over John Kerry, a man who told the truth (no matter how painful) to the US Congress, then it really doesn't hurt my feelings much that you don't respect me either. I feel like I'm in pretty good company in that case.
on Oct 29, 2004
Reply #44 By: Myrrander - 10/29/2004 10:48:53 AM
Well, I just can't agree with this whole "treasonous" idea. If the man was against the war, he had every right to say so. And if you'd rather respect Oliver North, a man who lied to the US Congress, over John Kerry, a man who told the truth (no matter how painful) to the US Congress, then it really doesn't hurt my feelings much that you don't respect me either. I feel like I'm in pretty good company in that case.


You don't buy the whole treasonous deal? Obviously you didn't read reply #19. I can help with that. And BTW this is not fiction but well documented FACT!


>
Lt. Kerry by his own words and actions violated the UCMJ and the US Code while serving as a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article 104 part 904, and US Code 18 U. S. C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct
violation of our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.
(Hanoi Jane?)
The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-president, having previously taken an oath . to
support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."


on Oct 29, 2004
this is the last i am going to say to you about it....

it wasn't that he protested the war that bothers me.....but that he aided the enemy (remember the unauthorized Paris Peace talks?)....and....about him "telling the truth"....tsk tsk...why not, like i posted above....ask those that were THERE what the truth was. Oh, Kerry was there.....4 months.....he didn't witness any of that. And the jokes that he got to "testify" in the Winter Soldier crap were proven to NOT have even BEEN in the military......have you even seen any of the tapes from the Winter Soldier stuff? "Oh, I forgot all about THAT masacre".....and, not to mention that Kerry's group was just loving themselves while they took the uniform and plastered communistic crap all over it. For ANYONE to say that they respect (and i assume, support?) those actions....that is UNAMERICAN....i don't care how you slice that pie.....What about the book he wrote....the mockery of the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima in WW2? I suppose that is ok, too, right? What about his being against checking for more POW's in what....'92 was it? What about his picture hanging in the North Vietnam War Memorial as a memorial to THEIR war hero, John Kerry? It amazes me that ppl are so.....cannot even think of a word.....you actually think it was "ok" to SPIT on the returning soldiers and POW's?????????? It simply amazes me.

Well...don't worry, Myrrander...you don't have to ask them...someone else already has: http://www.stolenhonor.com/home.asp

(Just a note....Draginol....if this is a message that lies on the edge of the rules, as a personal attack on Myrrander and anyone else who sides up with Kerry on his anti-war activities....then so be it. I don't mean any disrespect to you, but I stand by my words and feelings on this....even if it gets me banned from this site.)
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