The adventures of Mommy woman
Published on October 28, 2004 By JillUser In Politics

I recieved this in an email from a dear friend.  I already checked it out on snopes.com so I figured I would share it.  It articulates, from a well experienced military member, the character deficiency that I loathe in Senator Kerry.  I cringe every time I hear someone say that Kerry was brave for giving his Senate testimony when he returned from the war.

Here you go:

Bring it on, John
> by Oliver North
>
> August 27, 2004
>
> "Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question
> my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded
> attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our
> service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry


> Dear John,
>
> As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George
> Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your
> military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who
> servedb honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the
> president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.
> I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals
> or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I
> only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could
> stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree
> with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got
> more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many
> medals as they deserved.
>
> This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either,
> John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home.
> There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who
> did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young
> Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war
> because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job
> isn't finished." Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968.
> Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so.
> Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in
> Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you
> thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all
> that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want
> to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.
>
> But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having,
> John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even
> Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.
> When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and
> wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and
> were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all,
> John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of
> committing terrible crimes and atrocities.
> On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations
> Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally
> raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones
> to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
> randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of
> Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
> generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted
> on television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as
> thousands of other soldiers have committed."
>
> And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any
> other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of
> prisoners, the killing of prisoners."
> Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us
> carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And
> for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who
> suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of
> American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured
> because of you, John:
> Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody
> when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that
> for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He
> wasn't released until March 14, 1973.
>
> Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody
> for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner about
> being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March
> 4, 1973.


> Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as
> solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He
> remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.
> John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your
> claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of
> standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a
> bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you
> are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way,
> you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in
> chief.


> One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say
> something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I
> caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to
> help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless
> and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want
> to apologize to them and their families."
> Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?
>
> Oliver North is a nationally syndicated columnist, host of the Fox News
> Channel's War Stories and founder and honorary chairman of Freedom
> Alliance.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Oct 28, 2004

Oliver North has exactly ZERO credibility. This is laughable. Ollie's still pissed at Kerry for helping expose Iran-Contra.
Myr, again, you can dislike the messenger but the message is still true.  There is absolutely nothing untrue said by Ollie.  I really don't give a flying flip if Ollie has it out for Kerry.  Gee, nothing said about W is because people have it out for him.  What is important is the truth about the matter.

I don't give a rats ass about his medals or how he got them.  I do, however care about the character of the man and what lengths he is willing to go to to get to the top.  It is not honorable to accuse your fellow soldiers of atrocities while you are safely back in the lap of luxury and they are still there being tortured for things you say they and even yourself had done.

on Oct 28, 2004
One name, two words: John McCain

If John McCain calls Kerry's act in 1971 detestable, I am going to go out on a limb here and say John McCain is right!!
I think I will trust the words of a former POW than the a man who was not a POW.
I hear more POWs agreeing with John McCain and denouncing Kerry than I hear of any POW supporting Kerry.

PLINKO!!

- Grimmy Grim Grimster
on Oct 28, 2004
I know you guys like proof, this is what I have.

Lt. Kerry by his own words and actions violated the UCMJ and the US Code while serving as a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article 104 part 904, and US Code 18 U. S. C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct
violation of our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.
(Hanoi Jane?)
The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-president, having previously taken an oath . to
support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
on Oct 28, 2004
Thank you Jill for posting this. I found it convincing and sincere.
on Oct 28, 2004
Thanks for the info ... always nice to get some factual stuff to use for backing up ones beliefs to another person.
on Oct 28, 2004

Reply #19 By: crazy lady - 10/28/2004 3:13:43 PM
I know you guys like proof, this is what I have.


I hope you don't mind me borrowing your info and reposting it as part of an answer?
on Oct 28, 2004
Ok fine, Bush playing hooky, and going AWOL, then getting it all covered up or "classified" , under the UCMJ he should be held accountable. Oliver North got caught and he wants payback, that's all this is about.
on Oct 28, 2004
Reply #23 By: RedneckHunter - 10/28/2004 7:03:01 PM
Ok fine, Bush playing hooky, and going AWOL, then getting it all covered up or "classified" , under the UCMJ he should be held accountable


No empirical proof or he already would be under investigation. However there is pleny of empirical proof on John Kerry's treason. And a petition has been sent requesting such an investigation on Kerry's activities.
on Oct 28, 2004

Interesting the attackign of the messenger instead of the message. There is nothing in "Ollie's" letter that requires him to have any credibility at all. There are no facts in dispute here are there?

If Ollie says that the temperature is 32 degrees when he's standing next to your thermometer that reads it, does that mean he's wrong?

on Oct 28, 2004
like i said earlier.....pathetic.....the left amazes me.....Clinton was a draftdodger....he was supported.....Bush didn't go to Vietnam.....he is evil....Kerry broke the law, caused untold problems for our troops in captivity after got out of Vietnam....he is Godsend.

I am really hating the liberal side of things......talk about distortion.

Oh, or maybe the actual POW's that were there are phony....oh,no...that won't do.....the "vietnam vets" that Kerry got hold of in the Winter Soldiers campaign were the phony's.

Again....PATHETIC
on Oct 28, 2004

If Ollie says that the temperature is 32 degrees when he's standing next to your thermometer that reads it, does that mean he's wrong?
Great analogy!


Ok fine, Bush playing hooky, and going AWOL, then getting it all covered up or "classified" , under the UCMJ he should be held accountable. Oliver North got caught and he wants payback, that's all this is about.
You certainly don't do your own cause any good but thank you for exemplifying the tired out, pathetic, whining that is going on in the left.


Kudos again Mythic!

on Oct 28, 2004

If Ollie says that the temperature is 32 degrees when he's standing next to your thermometer that reads it, does that mean he's wrong?


not necessarily but it doesnt mean im going to rely on him or any thermometer he provides.  youre right though. there are no facts (disputable or not) involved here.  it's purely emotional rhetoric provided by a three-time convicted felon whose convictions were overturned by some lefty activist judge (thus freeing the former president bush from pardoning him) on one of those lefty technicalities.

on Oct 28, 2004

Whatever. By that reasoning then John Kerry, who has admitted to commiting war crimes and other atrocities, has no credibility either.

Like it or not, he makes a pretty compelling argument that, at best, Kerry's behavior after he left Vietnam were pretty reckless.

on Oct 28, 2004
There is nothing in "Ollie's" letter that requires him to have any credibility at all.


A very telling statement. If Ollie's not required to be credible, then why debate it at all? I still think he's prolly peeved at Kerry for hammering Iran-Contra so hard. At least Ollie never was an anti-war protestor. Then he'd REALLY be in trouble.

Like it or not, he makes a pretty compelling argument that, at best, Kerry's behavior after he left Vietnam were pretty reckless.


I'd rather vote for a man who did a "reckless" thing he thought might help stop a war in his 20's than a man who's recklessly caused war as President. Wasn't it around this time that Bush was urinating on cars in Alabama?

A response might read: "Dear Ollie: Your problems with me don't really have anything to do with my anti-war actions in the 1970s. No, they really have to do with all that illegal weapons trading we accused you of in the 1980's.
on Oct 28, 2004
I do think Ollie is credible. I am just saying that his argument doesn't require that you believe him because the facts he makes use of are not in dispute.
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