Ack.  That took this conversation ten steps back.

I thought this thread died, and I didn't read the last comments since my last one.

But, I just have to say that sgsmitty64's comment of: "Call me hard headed (is that possible with "thin" skin) but I stand by my assertion that k-girl was mocking with the *gasp*. Had it been a face to face conversation I think most would agree that was the tone. If me calling her to the mat over the mocking makes me thin skinned so be it, but then it would likewise be thin skinned to be upset over me mocking the oversoul as being not unlike "The Force"." to Brad really made me chuckle.  

What is the same between what *you* thought I said being mocking and "The Force" comment being mocking?  You.  You are the one who claimed both were mocking.  What I objected to was calling by beliefs "silly and shallow". 

You may want to realize that Brad can easily imagine the tone that I said things in since he talks to me in person each business day   And, no, it is not petty correcting somebody's spelling after they claim to know about it.  Sorry, that just doesn't fly.  But, thank you for calling me "shallow" again- it's really giving me a good idea of the "higher ground" that you stand on.

Sorry, you called me "petty" that time, not shallow.  You called  my beliefs silly and shallow.  It was me that you called petty.

I think that any time somebody makes such statements, they are putting themselves on higher ground.  I right out said that I have knowledge of Christianity.  I right out said that it had merit.  When you said that you knew about "Bhuda" it just proved that you didn't even bother to look up the correct spelling.  It looks pretty bad when somebody says that your beliefs are "silly" then claim that they knew about them but didn't even take the time to look the proper spelling up.

And, the comment about me being a Stardock employee was really unneeded.  You must be *very* disillusioned if you think I would ban somebody because they don't agree with me.  You obviously have no clue of my character.

Oh, and iespell is a free spell check for online forums.  You don't need a site to provide you one.

...anyway, I think you two are talkign past each other.

JillUser - here's the point Christian's are trying to explain (poorly):

In Christianity God doesn't reject anyone. It's the other way around. Christ provides all people the opportunity for salvation.  The door is open to anyone who wants to walk through that door and into salvation. In Christianity, the default state is not salvation, people have to choose the gift of salvation that Jesus provides.

Now, I don't happen to agree with that. I don't personally believe in a heaven or hell as Christians believe in it. And if there is a higher existence after death, I believe there are many doors and many options beyond the one offered via Christianity.

But that is basically the answer to your question - it's not that God rejects anyone. It's up to each person to accept Jesus Christ and take the path to salvation -- or not. Different Christians will argue what exactly it means to accept Jesus into your heart or not (some will tell you that just living your life the right way qualifies because you have unconsciously accepted Christ as your lord into your heart while others will argue that is not nearly enough -- they can debate that all day).

None of which applies to me. Most devout Christians would agree that I am damned. Not because Jesus or God has rejected me but because I've rejected Jesus as my savior. I do not have faith. It has nothing to do with the fact I've lived my life as honorably and morally as I can. That's a side issue.

Exactly.

I have a real problem with the Christian belief that the only path the heaven is by accepting Jesus.  What about all the people that were here before Jesus?  Or, what about the people who have no idea what a "bible" is?  Will they not go to heaven even if they lead the most noble and helpful life they possibly can?

What's interesting about that is that I have almost daily conversations with a person here at work that is a Jehovah's Witness.  Now, I know that one of the main goals of a Jehovah's Witness is to bring more people into their religion.  People always get the wrong view of this, however (you know- the ones that go door to door).  I have the most open minded conversations with him about religion.  I have explained my "Buddhism with a Transcendentalist twist" to him, and he found it interesting.  I know he doesn't agree, but that is fine.  He also has explained how he believes that everyone needs to read the bible and interpret it there own way.  It is supposed to be the word of God, but the interpretation that somebody else gives you may not be.  I find that a very logical tact since so much of Christianity is based on how the bible is actually interpreted (which really makes up the different "churches".) 

I really don't think that you need to ever try to "convert" somebody in order to explain and *educate* somebody about your beliefs.  But, on the other hand, as soon as you say that somebody else's beliefs are trivial, that is when I feel that you are putting yourself above another person.  I really can't say that any spiritual belief is above any other, because it is so personal.  And, in the end, almost all of them involve a god in some form.  And, who can say that "god" didn't make it that way?  Maybe we are supposed to learn about all the different ways to believe in god.  Who knows?  Nobody does.  All you can do is choose your faith and stick to it and hope it is right in the end.

I thought this was a very thought provoking statement.  I also believe in what was said about interpreting things your own way.  One of my problems with organized religion in general is lack of individual thought.  I don't care for brain washing or following the herd.  I don't believe in just accepting what others say without question.

Draginol, sgsmitty and KarmaGirl, thanks for bringing it back to topic. 

Yep.  That's why I said "bring more people into their religion"

The most recent way that I heard this explained was: You see your neighbors house on fire.  You yell to them in their back yard: "YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE".  They were distracted and didn't hear you, yet their house is still on fire and they don't know.  Do you walk away and think "Well, I told them, but they didn't listen.  My work here is done."  Or, do you keep yelling at them until they pay attention?  I would like to believe that anyone who has strong faith would keep repeating their message in hopes that it is heard.