So There's No Such Thing as Mental Illness Mr. Cruise?

Scientology advice leads to death

Published on March 23, 2006 By JillUser In Current Events

I think we are all familiar with Tom Cruise's advice to Brooke Shields regarding post partum depression. Apparantly scientologists believe that psychiatry is a plot by aliens to control our minds with drugs. Mr. Cruise has declared himself an expert on the subject. I personally believe he himself is insane.

Well, apparently a counselor of the church and her scientologist son took the advice to heart and treated the son's psychosis with vitamins and exercise rather than seeking psychiatric treatment. The son in turn stabbed his mom to death. Seems the vitamins didn't help his alleged mental illness but perhaps gave him plenty of strength for stabbing away at his imagined demons.

I will be interested to see if Mr. Cruise has any comment on the matter (he doesn't thus far). I personally will avoid taking advice from any group who believes we are being controlled (or attemptime to be) by aliens. Strangely I have heard Mr. Cruise state that he won't believe in aliens until he sees one for himself. For someone who makes everyone he works with tour his church, he doesn't seem to have a firm grip on his religion's foundation. Or maybe he does and tries to make it more palatable to the masses. He is an actor after all so who knows what is going on in the mind of the real Mr. Cruise.

Comments (Page 4)

Dr Guy

on Mar 24, 2006

To those arguing against medication to treat depression, I will ask this, which is worse, to "over medicate" and have someone walking around smiling all the time, or to not medicate and have them pull an Andrea Yates?

That is kind of like asking what is the best way to die, for in one instance, they kill or die, and in the other they might as well be dead.

bakerstreet

on Mar 24, 2006

no one is suggesting that people who need medication shouldn't get it. People are suggesting that medication is being offered to people before an adequate diagnosis is made. I've been "diagnosed" as being manic depressive twice in my life, once as bi-polar, and none of the times took more than 30 minutes and no physical exam was done to see if there was really any chemical imbalance.

Of those three times I was only offered a prescription once, but all three times I was told I would be vastly benefitted by drug therapy. You'll pardon me if I tend to think that there is a push toward medicating people that isn't necessarily driven by concern for the patient. I'm not the most stable person, I acknoledge that, but I think I do okay without pills. At the very least I would want to know more than some counselor with an AA degree could tell after 30 minutes.

Rightwinger

on Mar 24, 2006

Let me say this again:

But that's not to say that this is always the case.

----Me

This was meant to state that I acknowledge that *SOME* people really DO need medication. But too many don't, and are given the magic Happy Pills anyway, as Baker pointed out. That's the trend these days.....to medicate when we feel down. No one should EVER have to be sad or in a bad mood! Here! Have a prescription for Xanax!

My wife was having panic attacks due to problems with some classes she was taking for her degree. Graduation was coming up, and she may not have been able to graduate (she did).
Whatever they put her on, it made her like a happy zombie. When she was taking the pills she was spooky. No other word for it. You could crap on her head and pee in her eye and she'd just smile. I wouldn't want to be like that.

Other people I've seen are just too damn upbeat and cheerful; it's unnatural.

JillUser

on Mar 24, 2006

over medication is bad too... can be potentially harmful...

duh

That is kind of like asking what is the best way to die, for in one instance, they kill or die, and in the other they might as well be dead.

?? Doc, are you saying that if you are just in a "good mood" all the time you might as well be dead? I can't agree with that at all. And, I will go so far as to say that I personally would rather be in a medicated stupor than risk harming my loved ones.

no one is suggesting that people who need medication shouldn't get it.

Wrong Baker. You might not be suggesting that but people like Tom Cruise are. He claims it is "irresponsible" to take medication for mental illness...period.

I acknoledge that, but I think I do okay without pills.

That might work for you Baker, but there are plenty of people who think they can do without out it and end up snapping. Again, I agree that people are misdiagnosed and overly medicated. But you know what, that happens with all sorts of medical problems. I know people who have back problems who have been put into drug induced stupors rather than being sent to physical therapy. There are bad doctors. There are uneducated patients. It surely isn't limited to mental health.

I know people who choose to hold off on using medication for mental issues because they are aware of the effects it will have on their ability to think at their fullest capacity. But there comes a time when the illness gets so severe that they can no longer manage it and they need to compromise when that time comes.

I personally believe that a person seeking medical treatment for a mental illness needs to do their homework or have a dependable representative who has done their homework in order to make educated decisions regarding care. I believe the same applies to any medical treatment. We can't simply rely on what one doctor says. It is our life and we are responsible for it.

JillUser

on Mar 24, 2006

My wife was having panic attacks due to problems with some classes she was taking for her degree. Graduation was coming up, and she may not have been able to graduate (she did).
Whatever they put her on, it made her like a happy zombie.

Rightwinger, I'll ask you this, how did "they put her on" anything? Was she forced to take drugs? What caused her to go to the doctor for anxiety in the first place? If she knew she was anxious about graduating (which I can relate to), why go to the doctor?

I agree that people should have ups and downs. I don't believe people should go to the doctor for ups and downs. I do believe people should seek help when they are having irrational fear that has no apparent trigger. They should seek help if they feel suicidal or have thoughts of hurting others.

Noone forces us to see a doctor or take a medication. Noone should be shunned for getting medical help for real, dangerous psychosis. I won't claim that there are doctors who encourage unneeded medication but I will put forth that too many people are seeking quick fixes for normal problems. If people are expecting a life with no sadness or bad moods, then I say those people are the root of the problem.

Just like the parents who want a quick fix for their over active child. There are a lot of lazy parents today who medicate kids rather than dealing with them. I have a hard time believing there are as many truly ADD kids (and adults for that matter) these days. We are all looking for excuses and quick fixes for differences that are actually not abnormal. They are just differences. Pretty soon plastic surgery will do away with physical differences and antidepressants will do away with behavior differences. Won't that be great?

JillUser

on Mar 24, 2006

I will qualify my previous statement that "nobody" is forced to take medication because kids are forced and I am truly concerned about that.

bakerstreet

on Mar 24, 2006

... not much point in discussing it if people won't read what I say. I meant no one here. I'm not taking up for Tom Cruise, and it is embarassing that you think I would.

The problem I am stating is many people aren't even legitimately diagnosed with these problems when drug treatments are recommended. Every other rural county seat has a little "counseling" center where they have a bunch of little rooms with barely-educated "counselors", and a single room with a guy in a white coat who gets paid to write prescriptions.

I have no problem with people who are legitimately diagnosed with mental health problems getting the drugs they need. I have a problem with people being quickly and unprofessionally diagnosed IN ORDER TO give them drugs that companies want to push.

BlueDev

on Mar 24, 2006

The problem I am stating is many people aren't even legitimately diagnosed with these problems when drug treatments are recommended. Every other rural county seat has a little "counseling" center where they have a bunch of little rooms with barely-educated "counselors", and a single room with a guy in a white coat who gets paid to write prescriptions.

And this is a problem that runs very deep. Federal funding for mental health is being cut left and right. Psychiatric hospitals and clinics are being shut down due to lack of funding. Insurance companies refuse to pay for visits to actual, fellowship trained psychiatrists, in favor of those minimally trained "counselors". Psychiatrists are relegated to the role of medicine management, with Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance refusing to pay for actual counseling and therapy sessions, only 5-10 minute "medicine management" appointments, with the majority of the pressure being pushed off to primary care providers (who are also undertrained) to diagnose and attempt to treat mental health disease.

Sure, the drug companies are to blame for a lot of the problems with their aggressive marketing to both consumers and physicians. But they are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. And as a result, many people who need real help don't get it, with meds getting pushed to a lot of people.

But I still stand by my claim (due to both my experience and personal investigation of the issues) that, on the whole, mental illness is underdiagnosed and undertreated (and please realize that medications are only a small part of the treatment, if they are part at all).

JillUser

on Mar 24, 2006

... not much point in discussing it if people won't read what I say. I meant no one here. I'm not taking up for Tom Cruise, and it is embarassing that you think I would.

I never suggested you were taking TC's side Baker. I don't know why you're getting so defensive. I was arguing pros and cons too. That is why I stressed that people need to take responsibility with their own care. You talk about poor counseling in rural areas. I have lived in some very rural areas. I went to an ER in BFE when I was having gall bladder attacks. I was given a shot of morphine without being asked if I had any allergies or being told what they were giving me and then dismissed as being constipated. I didn't just say "okay" and accept the diagnosis. I drove to the Detroit area and was instantly told I needed emergency gall bladder surgery.

There are corrupt doctors of all kinds. I think it is unfair to say that it is anything more than a fringe that diagnose in order to push drugs. I don't deny it happens. I'm sure it does. I still think there is a huge number of people who get genuine help.

People have misdiagnosis of all sorts all the time. That doesn't negate the validity and need for the drugs. People get treated for ulcers when they have gall bladder problems, RA when they have MS or Lupus, etc. I would imagine mental ailments are far more difficult to diagnose than physical ones.

I would say that if a doctor wanted to put you on a drug after only seeing you once for 30 mins, you should certainly get other opinions and research the drug first. If you suspect you are bi-polar or manic depressive, read up on the subjects as much as possible. I guess I just don't buy that we are just victims of big drug companies.

bakerstreet

on Mar 24, 2006

"I don't know why you're getting so defensive. "

Eh, I'm not sure I'm seeing a groundswell of tolerance from the other side of the conversation. I don't think anyone here is saying that no one needs to be medicated. No matter how we qualify it, though, the prozac lobby here refuses to see our opinions as anything but insensitive toward people with mental problems.

From our, or at least my, perspective, it just looks like no one is willing to question the insane numbers of people being treated with these drugs. That, to me is a dangerous thing. The number of adults treated for ADHD with drugs doubled last year. I have no doubt that many need help, but I refuse to believe that this isn't often driven by drug companies that want to create business.

Go read their little "If you answer yes to any of these, you may have..." questionaires. Then go look at the debunking of people who, say, claim to communicate with the dead. So much of this drug advertising is built so that almost anyone can see themselves with symptoms.

Don't take my word for it. Go read for yourself. Here is the one at the Prozac site. Look at the questions and tell me that those symptoms aren't indicative of a hundred different illnesses.

By the time someone gets to the doctor believing they are depressed, they aren't any different than someone who goes to a psychic believing they can talk to a dead relative. They've already decided what's wrong because of the quiz, and sadly many doctors are more than ready to charge them the $200 office visit, write a presciption the drug rep promotes, and have them out the door a half hour later.

Again, and again, I am not saying that people don't need these drugs. I refuse to accept that such hard-driven marketing doesn't make people interpret their normal ups and downs as something more, especially with the promise that it will make them "feel better". It's like Viagra. Maybe you don't have ED, but heck, if it might help... why not?

That's not the way to deal with medical treatment of any illness. The drug companies shouldn't be pushing people to self-diagnose. People should take their symptoms to a doctor and let them do it.

bakerstreet

on Mar 25, 2006

Take the first quiz I linked. Here's how they score it:

54 & up Severe depression
36 - 53 Moderate/severe depression
22 - 35 Mild to moderate depression
18 - 21 Borderline depression
10 - 17 Possible mild depression
0 - 9 No depression likely

I tapped in the symptoms that go along with Crohn's disease... and got a 55. Severe depression. Will Prozac help me with an intestinal illness, do you think? I had it for years before I got sick enough to go in and get a test done for it. Do you think the people who considered me to be manic depressive might have missed something?

These questionaires are, as I said, like the people who claim to talk to the dead or read minds. I would be willing to bet there are hundreds of non-mental illnesses that carry enough of those symptoms to score "severe depression", and I'd be willing to be the average doctor handed those symptoms would be ten times more likely to hand over a prescription.

They are telling people what to say when they go to the doctor, and to me that is a dangerous thing. It is a gold mine for doctors, too, because you're still going to pay for the office visit, and their work is already cut out for them. Write out a prescription, charge your insurance $175, and see you next time.

bakerstreet

on Mar 25, 2006

I did the one on the Prozac page, only put in answers that fit the symptoms of Crohn's disease, and got a 56. They suggested I print it out and give it to my doctor. Is this the way you guys really think things should be done?

My doctor would tell me it goes along with Crohn's, but if I didn't know I had it, would he? What if I went directly to a psychiatrist? I have *zero* doubt that what led people to diagnose me as manic-depressive in the past were the mental effects of my illness, not a "chemical imbalance in the brain".

If you guys think this is responsible, fine. I support your right to have that opinion, but to me it is blind. I don't know many people that wouldn't at LEAST get "possible mild depression". I look at my bank account and it depresses me. I look at work that needs to be done to my house and it depresses me. I look at my car, and it depresses me. Hell, I look in the MIRROR and it depresses me.

Should I take a pill for that, or should I fix my finances, house, car and get in shape? Nah, easier just to get my insurance company to pay for a pill. Again, I'm not saying everyone is that way, but look at the writing on the wall.

adnauseam

on Mar 31, 2006

Problem is: Tom Cruise lives in a world of make-believe. He's still chasing Thandi Newton along cliff tops in a Ferrari. This guy speaks for Scientology and makes its theories seem more important because of his clout. Fact is, if the Scientologists believe in aliens having a say in our mental ups and downs, they, and Cruise, need serious counselling. I am aware, of course that bullshit sells newspapersand magazines, and, inter alia, boost bank accounts.

What's next? Cruise walked on the moon before Neil Armstrong? Etherially speaking--of course.

JillUser

on Mar 31, 2006

What's next? Cruise walked on the moon before Neil Armstrong? Etherially speaking--of course.

According to scientology we have all lived before and have had "galactic events". So Cruise claiming he's been to the moon would be no surprise.

on Mar 31, 2006

I have been on moon. I was partying with lunarites and other aliens.

My proof? I painted that human face. Of course, after millions of years, it has sadly faded.

Of course I don't need proof! I said it and that's proof enough for me!

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