wow...

I do agree with you on this.... it makes me sick when people think you have too much so therefor you should carry more of a burden to take care of the deadbeats.

Dont get me wrong though, as I have stated I do understand helping those that have fallen on hard times or do need help for real. The people I am talking about are those people that do lose jobs ( UI is there and to me its okay, in fact I have used a bit myself in my 2 layoffs this year , but you know what in the 6 months it took to get a call back to my original job... I used only 7 weeks worth.... and that was 4 weeks waiting for my original job to finally come out and say it was going to take awhile for people to get called back if they did reopen the plant so... I dont really count those 4... so its more or less 3 weeks worth ) ANd people that are working but need some extra help with the bills or whatever.

The problem comes when you have people that pop out kids left and right or just sit at home colecting whatever they can... you know what? alot of those people live BETTER than I do, and I work!

As I let thoughts settle in ill post more but you get the thumbs up from me with this post

Thanks Watertown.  I totally agree that we need to have safety nets for people who are going through rough times.  I'm not for taking away financial aide I just think our society has moved so far from personal responsibiltiy that we've lost sight of needs vs wants.  We have so many people that don't want to do without anything now in order to be able to be financially responsible.

There are things that make no sense to me to spend money on even if you "can".  Like, for instance, $400 shoes or a $1200 bag.  I find that stuff ridiculous but hey, if you can afford it, more power to you.  I just don't want you spending that money and then holding out your hand because you can't pay your rent and figure I've got a big house so I can afford to give it to you.

Yeah people chose the "luxeries" over paying rent or bills or even " hey ill charge it"

YOu know I am not a guy that lives rich... I work for a living and the old lady stays at home to deal with the in home therapy our 2 kids get daily. But I work. I make around 25k a year.... and you know what? we live okay. We have a roof over our head, heck I can even drive a simi used car ( 01 ) and do have some of the better stuff.... but you know what... bills come first and then the kids then me and her.

See I should be the one that is all for these free handouts... but I am not. I think the problem starts at the home. My parents tought me that  nothing is free. At the ripe age of 13 i was told..." you want something go work" Now parents think that is child abuse.

Well I refuse to go with the sheep. I understand that Rich people for the most part earned it and that the Gov has no right to take that money from them. I always ask people " how would you like it if the Gov took 50% of YOUR check because there was someone that they thought needed it more than you?" O noooo they dont like that but that is basically what they are doing.

I still think people ought to have to take a drug screen to get any kind of public assistance and for whatever reason. I mean, I have to for my job so why not them for taking monies I pay my taxes into?

You know my kids get SSI...autistic ( the older one being very bad.... I dont think hes gonna be able to talk... poor guy is almost 7 and only can say 10 words clearly ) and if anyone here gets convicted of a crime the kids lose it...

Your frustration about that is totally justified.

I honestly dont know who says that taxes are based on how much you "need" ..... anyone who says that is certifiably ignorant.

i never heard any responsible official saying that ... as for the rest of the population.... well, i dont know if you read this or not ... but there was a study few years ago that concluded that 56% of us are mentally deficient ..... i am not kidding ... that is really what they said. .... i think they are not far from the truth.

so dont pay attention to those half-brained opinions ...

just to summerize the basics behind taxes ( i am sure you know it already) ... it is not based on what the taxpayer needs ... it is based on Two things:

1-how much the government needs to do what our elected officials decide it needs done.

2- Each taxpayer should not be hurt TOO MUCH by the taxes they pay.

every one is hurt by deducting taxes from their pay ... the question is: how do you make the hurt equal?

one answer is the prgressive sytem we have by which the high income payers pay a higher percentage ... on the assumption that their income allows them to afford it.

another answer is to make each payer pay the same percentage of their income .... this option is mathematically unbiased ... but I am sure that you can see that this is humanly biased...

look at it this way ... if your family have a load of shopping bags to unload from a car ... do you, your husband and your children carry equal weight ... or do you expect evryone to carry what they can without being tired?

that is really the whole idea ... not what you need ... it is what the Gov needs and what each can pay without being hurt too much

you can say the gov should not need that much .... no one would disagree with you on that ... the problem is ... there is sooooo much that are needed ... and the people are the ones who keep asking for that ... better roads, bridges, safe travel, steady power supply, no black-outs, safe neighborhoods, cheap fuel, ... etc ... you know the rest ....

we are very greedy spoiled people ... we ask a lot ... and of course we complain when we pay.... it is normal ...

I just wanted you to understand that the argument that you pointed out is a stupid one and it is not the basis for our taxes ...

if some believe that stupid argument ... then they are ignorant ...

we all wish that there was another way to do what we want and pay what we want .... that would be fantastic ... wouldn't it?

but that is day dreaming i think.

Just to make sure you understand me correctly, ... i am sure that there are many ways that the gov can and should reduce its waste and corruption and stupid thinking ... but that is another issue and it is our job to keep after them till they fix at least some of that

To relate to this analogy, we don't have people carrying what they can without being tired.  We have the mom's and dad's (the wealthy) carrying let's say 80%, then we have the older kids (middle class) carrying the other 20% while the younger kids (people who keep asking for more and more but don't contribute) sit in the car and whine about how cold it is outside and how tired they already are from a hard day of doing nothing.

Gee, thanks for enlightening me.  I'm not discussing tax code here.  I'm discussing the attitude that seems to prevail these days of taxing the crap out of those who are deemed to able to "afford" it and then whining that they don't pay their "fair share".  It used to be that success was soemthing that people looked at to strive for.  Now, it seems like it is just something to envy and to take.

Speak for yourself.  I am not.  I ask for very little.  I'm not greedy.  If you saw the way I live you wouldn't think I had much money.  I don't expect the government to provide most of the things those "greedy spoiled people" you speak of ask.  I will agree that in general, Americans have become very spoiled and greedy.  That's pretty much what I'm talking about.

As a whole this country has gotten away from what made us a strong country to begin with and to be honest.... will this country survive the downfall ( yes its on the way, the question is will the masses finally wake up before its to late or will we become east china )

This is the waste and corruption i said we all should be fighting to eliminate ... no disagreement on that ... it is a must ...no question about it.

I already said you knew the tax code ... i just wanted to list it in order to show that it is not based on what the idiots say ...

The attitude you referring to is definitly what i meant by ignorant people.... no one listens or makes policies based on that idiotic attitude....

That is what i meant. I never refer to individuals in discussing general issues like this one. As for you, me or anyone in particular, it is not greed to buy and enjoy the fruits of your effort regardless of what it is or how much it costs... but as americans, we became a country of instant gratification ... as i said earlier, many of us want a lot from the gov but dont want to work or pay for it ... that is greed and that must change

It's the idiots in the government ignoring me and listening to the masses that's the problem.

I would be cool with the ideas expressed in the blog by JillUser as long as what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander. If you buy a Lamborghini and wear $5000 dresses/suits than perhaps you don't have the right to question where your taxes go (arguably you don't have enough discretion in where your personal wealth goes to judge where tax money should be allocated anyway).

The idea of a progressive tax system in America has existed pretty much since our nations' inception. (The wealthy have the bulk of the financial reward; they should bear the bulk of the financial burden...or with great power comes great responsibility...blah, blah, blah). So it would seem un-American to me to disagree with this premise. Besides with all the complaints of the wealthy about how much taxes they pay: "Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

That's exactly what those I'm talking about are saying!  If spending like you say means you don't have enough "discretion" about where your own money should go, then all those Hollywood types who have been out there stumping for Obama shouldn't have a say.  So, who gets to argue how anyone should spend their money?  Everyone seems to have an opinion about others but who gets to judge you?

How do they get that "reward"?  Are they just handed it?  Some are.  Maybe the people who simply inherit wealth should have more burden.

If I have to pay for your healthcare then yep,  I think you should have to quit smoking.  You know what, if I asked you to be paying for my healthcare, I would expect you to demand I lose weight.  Generous has nothing to do with it.  It only makes sense.  I think it is "fair"...oh, using that word.  Generous should have nothing to do with it.

How Democratic is it if the number of people who don't pay in keeps growing and they have as much say as the people who are doing all of the paying?  They don't mind raising taxes because 100% x 0 is still 0. 

Some want to blame the economic mess we're in on the "greedy" Wall Street types and some want to point the finger at the "greedy" people who took loans on homes that they couldn't possibly afford.  What we can all agree on is the greed.  Is it greedy to work your butt off, build a legal business paying taxes and paying your employees well all the way and not want to be taxed the crap out of when the chips are down?

Not that it's anyone's business but we have a high deductible HSA.  We also are the employers who pay for the others in our "group" so I would say that my impact is far less than most.

Medicare has coverage for programs and drugs to quit smoking.  My health coverage doesn't cover any weight loss programs.

I doubt the veracity of your statements.  I'd love to see your source.  Most millionaires in America are first generation millionaires. Most were average students. Most make their money in service industries.

I agree!  I am so tired of hearing people talk about "needs" when it is really wants they want when they want them.