The adventures of Mommy woman
Published on May 14, 2004 By JillUser In Current Events

I am a person who sees horrible things like what happened on 9/11 or what happened to Nick Berg (I made the mistake of watching the video) and feel that those people responsible deserve to be eliminated from the population.  I do not feel like they need to be tortured or made to endure a painful death.  Quick and painless is fine as long as they are no longer around to take out innocent lives.

I just don't understand how these people derive satisfaction out of causing pain and suffering.  My lack of understanding applies to the Americans involved in POW mistreatment so please don't think this has anything to do with nationality.  I just don't have it in me to fathom someone being able to slowly hack someone's head off with a knife.

Having said that, I am sure that if someone did something horrific to someone I love, I would probably want to see them suffer.  That suffering doesn't have to be physical though.  I could deal with having everything they care about taken from them and being reminded of what they did every day of their life.

Does anyone understand how anyone could do such horrific things?


Comments (Page 3)
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on May 16, 2004
Mossad local assistants or sayanim
operating in western countries
extracted from 'By Way of Deception' by Victor Ostrovsky (pp. 86-9)
Alan's lecture was followed by one on technical cooperation between agencies, in which we learned that the Mossad had the best capability of all for cracking locks. Various lock manufacturers in Great Britain, for example, would send new mechanisms to British intelligence for security testing; they in turn sent them on to the Mossad for analysis. The procedure was for our people to analyze it, figure out how to open it, then send it back with a report that it's "impregnable."

After lunch that day, Dov L. took the class out to the parking lot where seven white Ford Escorts were parked. On Israel, most Mossad, Shaback, and police cars are white, although the head of Mossad then drove a burgundy Lincoln Town Car.) The idea was to learn how to detect if you were being followed by a car. It's something you practice again and again. There's no such thing as you see in the movies or read in books about little hairs on the back of your neck standing up and telling you somebody is behind you. It's something you learn only by practice, and more practice.

Each night when we went home, and each day when we left home for school, it was still our responsibility to make, sure we weren't being followed.

The next day Ran S. delivered a lecture on the sayanim, a unique and important part of the Mossad's operation. Sayanim ? assistants ? must be 100 percent Jewish. They live abroad, and though they are not Israeli citizens, many are reached through their relatives in Israel. An Israeli with a relative in England, for example, might be asked to write a letter saying the person bearing the letter represents an organization whose main goal is to help save Jewish people in the diaspora. Could the British relative help in any way?

There are thousands of sayanim around the world. In London alone, there are about 2,000 who are active, and another 5,000 on the list. They fulfill many? different roles. A car sayan, for example, running a rental agency, could help the Mossad rent a car without having to complete the usual documentation. An apartment sayan would find accommodation without raising suspicions, a bank sayan could get you money if you needed it in the middle of the night, a doctor sayan would treat a bullet wound without reporting it to the police, and so on. The idea is to have a pool of people available when needed who can provide services but will keep quiet about them out of loyalty to the cause. They are paid only costs. Often the loyalty of sayanim is abused by katsas who take advantage of the available help for their own personal use. There is no way for the sayan to check this.

One thing you know for sure is that even if a Jewish person knows it is the Mossad, he might not agree to work with you ? but he won't turn you in. You have at your disposal a nonrisk recruitment system that actually gives you a pool of millions of Jewish people to tap from outside your own borders. It's much easier to operate with what is available on the spot, and sayanim offer incredible practical support everywhere. But they are never put at risk ?nor are they privy to classified information.

Suppose during an operation a katsa suddenly had to come up with an electronics store as a cover. A call to a sayan in that business could bring 50 television sets, 200 VCRs ? whatever was needed ? from his warehouse to your building, and in next to no time, you'd have a store with $3 or $4 million worth of stock in it.

Since most Mossad activity is in Europe, it may be preferable to have a business address in North America. So, there are address sayanim and telephone sayanim. If a katsa has to give out an address or a phone number, he can use the sayan's. And if the sayan gets a letter or a phone call, he will know immediately how to proceed. Some business sayanim have a bank of 20 operators answering phones, typing letters, faxing messages, all a front for the Mossad. The joke is that 60 percent of the business of those telephone answering companies in Europe comes from the Mossad. They'd fold otherwise.

The one problem with the system is that the Mossad does seem to care how devastating it could be to the status of the jewish people in the diaspora if it was known. The you get if you ask is: "So what's the worst that could happen to those Jews?' they'd all come to Israel - Great."

Katsas in the stations are in charge of the sayanim, and most active sayanim will be visited by a katsa once every three months or so, which for the katsa usually means between two and four face?to?face meetings a day with sayanim, along with numerous telephone conversations. The system allows the Mossad to work with a skeleton staff. That's why, for example, a KGB station ?would employ about 100 people, while a comparable Mossad station would need only six or seven.

People make the mistake of thinking the Mossad is at a disadvantage by not having stations in obvious target countries. The United States, for example, has a station in Moscow and the Russians have stations in Washington and New York. But Israel doesn't have a station in Damascus. They don't understand that the Mossad regards the whole world outside Israel as a target, including Europe and the United States. Most of the Arab countries don't manufacture their own weapons. Most don't have high?level military colleges, for example. If you want to recruit a Syrian diplomat, you don't have to do that in Damascus. You can do it in Paris. If you want data on an Arab missile, you get that in Paris or London or the United States where it is made. You can get less information on Saudi Arabia from the Saudis themselves than you can from the Americans. What do the Saudis have? AWACs. Those are Boeing, and Boeing's American. What do you need the Saudis for? The total recruitment in Saudi Arabia during my time with the Institute was one attach6 in the Japanese embassy. That was it.

And if you want to get to the senior officers, they study in England or the United States. Their pilots train in England, France, and the United States. Their commandos train in Italy and France. You can recruit them there. It's easier and it's less dangerous.

Ran S. also taught his class about "white agents," individuals being recruited, either by covert or direct means, who may or may not know they're working for Israel. They are always non?Arabs and usually more sophisticated in cal knowledge. The prejudice in Israel is that Arabs don't understand technical things. It shows itself in jokes, like the one about the man selling Arab brains for $150 a pound and Jewish brains for $2 a pound. Asked why the Arab brain was so expensive, he says, "Because it's hardly been used." A widely held perception of Arabs in Israel.

White agents are usually less risky to deal with than "black," or Arab, agents. For one thing, Arabs working abroad are very likely to be subjected to security by Arab intelligence ?and if they catch you working with one as a black agent, they'll want to kill you. The worst that would happen to a Mossad katsa caught working with a white agent in France is deportation. But the white agent himself could be charged with treason. You do everything you can to protect him, but the main danger is to him. If you're working with an Arab, both of you are in danger.

While our classes at the Academy went on, exercises outside with cars continued apace. We learned a technique called maulter, the unplanned use of a car in detecting, or, improvised following. If you have to drive in an area you're unfamiliar with, and you have no preplanned route, there's a series of procedures ? turning left then right, moving, stopping, and so on ? to follow, mainly to eliminate coincidence and make certain whether or not you are being followed. We were also frequently reminded that we were not "bolted" to our cars. If we thought we were being followed, but couldn't verify it completely, it might be wise to park, venture out on foot, and take it from there.

Another lecture, by a katsa named Rabitz, explained the Israel Station, or local station, which handles Cyprus, Egypt, Greece, and Turkey. Its katsas are called "hoppers" or "jumpers," because they work out of Tel Aviv headquarters. They recruit by hopping back and forth for a few days at a time, to operate the agents and the sayanim. All these countries are dangerous to operate in because their governments tend to be pro?PLO.

The Israel station is not a popular assignment for katsas. During his lecture on the subject, Ran S. dumped on it. Ironically, he was later appointed its head.
on May 17, 2004

Boy, I'm gone for a couple of days and I get trolled up the wahzoo!

This article was not about the validity of the Berg video.  It wasn't about politics.  The events in question are torture and killing.  I am not even getting as far as who did it.  I am questioning how any human being could do something like the events in question.

I am deeply disturbed that so many can see the "logic" in doing these horrendous things to people because they share a country with others who have wronged them.  There are a few voices of reason on this thread so I haven't given up hope.

on May 17, 2004

That was pretty crazy wasn't it? It does make sense though. After all, Bush's evil plan to kill Nick Berg to gain support for the United States worked like a charm!

on May 17, 2004
It's been one long 30 year tantrum by the hapless Arabs who, alone in the world, cannot seem to get their act together despite having plenty of resources


You dont suspect an external problem holding them back? It's really quite obvious...

On that note - Jill, dont bother trying to understand, you will hurt your brain trying to unify, only to realise that both sides are the same...

Just be the best person you can be...

BAM!!!
on May 17, 2004

This is why I black list people. I just don't have time for kooks coming in and writing nonsense.  What's next, the Daniel Perl video was fake too? sheesh.

on May 17, 2004

I think that some people forgot to take their haldol recently....and are now running around spouting off nonsense and wearing tin-foil hats so the aliens can't read their minds.


Unfortunately Jill, a few of them have made a beeline for your blog.

on May 17, 2004
I guess we are all wearing down a little after the past couple of weeks. Here is what I hope might help put the proper perspective on things; "God is love." "Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God; Believe also in me." "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever would believe on Him should not perish, but have life everlasting"
Friends, we must choose life. We must choose light over darkness. Here is a very big thought that I suppose each of us ought to consider: The word of God speaks of an 'outer darkness'. It is a place where people who reject the light, God's Light, will be sent to. Travel to the furthest star and watch as you pass it. Then continue into the dark, non stop. You will reach a point where that last star and all the light behind it will grow dim. Finally, the dimness fades away and there is nothing but darkness. What concern will there be there? Will you stop in that pitch blackness or just continue forever into the never ending dark? What memories will survive your light-years measured trip to the place of your choice?
"The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom."
Jesus(like the real Jesus), you never know who you're gonna meet out here. Lord, have mercy on us.
I hope that wasn't too American for you, Monsieur Lavon.
on May 18, 2004
Your cheap protestant sermon make us laugh instead of call us to the Lord. From where you get your warranty that you are inside the light & some others pain within the darkeness?
May Jesus have mercy of all vacuous preachers...
on May 18, 2004
Monsters don't need an excuse to be monsters. It's no coincidence that the worst terrorist attacks happen just before peace summits. Terrorists' causes are just excuses. They are mercenaries, sociopathic wastes of skin. We should have no tolerance for them, and no tolerance for any nation, anywhere that allows their healthy existance within their borders.


The saddest part is when people sit and make long excuses for them. Nick Berg gets less press than Abu Garaib because he was Jewish, and because he was American. We have no allies in the Arab world, only terrorist states we have paid off and who then use that money to support terrorism. I would happily pay $10 a gallon for gas if it would ensure that not a dime of my money went to the Middle East or the filth that commit, applaud and support these atrocities.

on May 19, 2004
You all, oh sorrowful people of this forum, are trying to understand somebody else's motivations when, judging by your words, you barely know yourselves; you -oh silly patriots- are tying to judge the world when you scarcely know your own land.

Most of you are driving by assumption, by prejudices, by the gossip of your community, your Internet places, your newspaper or your media channels.

Assumptions are our neurotic way to believe; and many assumptions are typical of the most common emotional disorders. And no, no: with neither wealth, nor race, nor land, nor religion, mental health can be achieved. But yes, emotional balance does exist.

Some of the psychological conditions of this age are paranoia & mania. This mental state is not exclusive of us (yes, racist ones, this simple fact can be a social proof of the equality of all humanity) but we, Americans (behold: I'm not Arabian) excel on it.

Yet, if we are serious about opinion, we need to support ours with fact and knowledge. And the most of you are feeding your speeches just with the dead seeds of you imagination (Bakerstreet being the Paranoid-Maniac master of all among you: read his “Do as I say…”

To be informed and to know are as different as fire and water. -Consequent with it, I am attaching below a reliable proof about my speech. If you are an opinion writer, It should be always necessary to proof what you are saying: "Who the hell you are that a reader can believe what you write just because you say it so?” To boast individually about anything is superfluous; as a matter of basic communication, we need to attach reliable proofs that can support our beliefs.

Of course, this shall be possible only if we are serious about the writing and reporting of facts. But, please -in acting so- avoid the temptation of distort and manipulate the reality to alienate us about your truth. So, this is your first lesson about journalism.

Therefore, now you feel aggravated; consequently with it, blinded now by your anger, you reject irrationally what I say. It is fine; don't believe me. It is my purpose neither to be rejected nor accepted by you. Yet, as simple self-knowledge exercise, try to read at least the following excerpt of the book, Cognitive Therapy, by Dr. Aaron Beck. Dr. Beck is one of the most important psychologists of this age (stop to be paranoid again: he is American, not a middle-eastern person, relax...).
So, let's Dr. Beck speak (my few comments, if you allow me, among ( ):

"Each … psychiatric disorder... has its own set of rules. In anxiety neurosis (like the one we are experiencing about terrorism) the rules are concerned with the concept of danger and the patient's estimate of his capacity for coping with it. The conclusions derived from the application of the rules take the form of predictions as, "I am in a imminent danger of losing my most prized attributes -health, life, friend, job." "I don't have the means to ward off this danger." The specific rules leading to these conclusions are applied -or misapplied- to specific events... "If I am away from home, calamities may occur and I won't be able to copy with them."

"In anxiety, the rules are generally conditional: "If a particular event occurs, It will probably have adverse results."

"In phobias, the rules are also conditional; they apply to situations the patient is successfully able to avoid... "If I go to an unfamiliar place, I might get lost." In these cases the patient operates under the rule, "I won't be able to cope with the situation myself." As in the case of anxiety, these rules attach a high probability of disaster occurring... (The Middle East region if an unfamiliar place for all of us, thus, we can not expect more than a high probability of disaster there)."

"In manic conditions, the content of assumptions is opposite to that in depression. The rules are framed in such a way as to exaggerate the gain and elevate self-esteem: "If I have a job to do, I shall do a superb job." "Each success proves again how superior I am."

"The rules of the paranoid patient are likely to be unconditional and absolute. The content of the rules reeks of conspiracies, unjustified abuse, discrimination: "When people don't agree with me, they deliberately trying to oppose me." "When I don't get what I want, it means somebody has sabotaged me." "When things don't go right, it is because of other's people interference."

"When we question a patient about his ideas, he generally...states his conclusion. For example, a patient with anxiety neurosis states, "I may be about to die." With depression, "...I am worthless." With mania, "I am supreme"; with paranoid reaction, "Everyone is against me."

"We have to work back from the conclusion to derive the rule (assumption, premise)... The patient ‘s ideation and anxiety become involved in a vicious cycle… How these rules hypertrophy into an emotional disturbance? Since the rules tend to be couched in extreme words, they lead to a an extreme conclusion…"

"The thinking disorder characteristic of psychological disturbance may be analyzed in terms of the operation of the rules. Such characteristics thinking aberrations as exaggeration, overgeneralization, and absoluteness are built into the framework of the rule and, consequently, press the person to make an exaggerated, overgeneralized, absolute conclusion… The more primitive rules tend to displace the more mature concepts…”

(Book published by Meridian Books, Penguin Group.)

Peace be upon all of you…
on May 21, 2004
Tribal cultures have a big thing for the need for revenge. And I applaud them for it.


You applaud the behavior of those who beheaded Nick Berg? Have you SEEN that video? It's absolutely disgusting!! After seeing it myself, I had a difficult time holding on to my Christian love for them, I'll be honest....
on May 21, 2004

I never realized revenge was killing somebody who was only vaguely related to the person who did you wrong. Using that logic, I could kill Jessica Simpson because of O.J. Simpson killing his wife (not only are they both Simpsons, but they're both Americans so it's almost as if they're the same person!).

on May 26, 2004
Murder by any means whether precision-guided bomb or machette is abhorrent. When one becomes justifiable all become justifiable. And so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you.

Hiding behind your government does not consititute moral high ground, and every day you and I wake up to another 1.5 body bags.

Thanks for your time.
on May 26, 2004

I have a feeling that you're implying that killing people of all types is wrong, but if I'm mistaken, I apologize. But if I'm not then...


If no murder is justifiable, then I guess if my family were about to be killed by some psychopathic killer, and I had the means to kill him, I should rather let him live so that he may kill again rather than "stoop to his level".

on May 26, 2004
The human being is undoubtably the most savage, cruel, brutal creature on the face of the earth. There isn't a single life-form on the planet humans don't kill at will. That includes other humans.

That is the nature of human beings; brutal killers.
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