Actually, with our third, my ex was in labor for only 35 minutes.

Exactly!



I've seen plenty of docs and nurses standing around chit chatting while people were waiting in agony. I've even been privy to a doc spending 20mins on the phone discussing his boat insurance while people were waiting.

I'm quite aware that someone has to wait. There is no excuse for someone writhing in pain on the floor vomitting blood to not get immediate attention...period.

Rather, the beds are full, the docs are working, the nurses are working, and unfortunately, they cannot get to everyone right away. It is just not possible. No doc is sitting in the back room, sipping tea and eating crumpets. You are so quick to jump on this womans death...suppose she was treated immediately, meaning someone else was displaced, and died in her stead?

Sounds like hospital mismanagement.  How come they don't have enough staff? 

I have been to good hospitals, and I have been to horrible hospitals.  We have 2 major hospitals by me (St. Joe and UofM).  I have been to emergency at both of them.  I got better care at St. Joe versus UofM.  St. Joe was due to debilitating muscle spasms, UofM was for a car accident.  what was the difference?  Management. 

St. Joe had *many* people in Triage.  They also had registered nurses that talked to me while I was in a wheelchair (while filling out admission paperwork) to start the process of getting me help.  When the Dr. walked down to talk to me, he was talking to the nurse the whole time.  By the time he got to me, he pretty much new what was wrong.  Confirmed it when he met with me and gave the nurse instructions- Done.

UofM (car accident) was complete chaos.  I was seen right away because I came in from an ambulance.  There were Drs and nurses everywhere, then they wheeled me into a hall and I sat there for over an hour on a back board with a neck brace on.  No meds, no nothing.  By the time a saw somebody, I wasn't sure if the pain was from the accident or from being on the freaking backboard for so long.  If i would have had serious injuries, i would have been in a bad way.  All the time, I heard Drs and nurses (could have been "in training" Drs, though, since it is a teaching hospital) joking and laughing and chatting the whole time.

My lesson learned was to go to St. Joe.  I doubt that they have more staff, it's just that their staff is better organized and efficient.

There is no excuse for what happened to that lady.  No matter what, a nurse could have seen her, or they could have moved a not so urgent case into the main hospital for observation.

Ok, maybe I missed something but I know I heard on FOX News that the woman was an addict who had been discharged from that hospital earlier that day because she was trying to get free drugs.

If that was the case then yes, it was still the hospitals fault but I can understand how it happened. The woman was going through withdrawal and that alone will kill you if your not watched medically.

Total lack of fear. People in these places feel that they are untouchable, no matter how heinous their actions. If after something like this they found the person or persons responsible hanging flayed in the victim's family's backyard, well, they might think twice. I find it difficult to believe as a husband and father that someone could just let this go with a monetary settlement.

If that was the case then yes, it was still the hospitals fault but I can understand how it happened.

Seriously, you can still understand why someone vomitting blood would be ignored?  If so, I hope you don't work in the medical field.

Baker, I certainly do get the feeling when dealing with most urgent or emergency care that I have had the misfortune to require that they have the attitude that you just take whatever lousy care they will give you and accept it without question.  No other business could survive dealing with people the way the medical profession does.

This is my feeling as well. I have a permanently damaged knee that will probably eventually need to be replaced because about 15 years ago when it started to go really bad, I hobbled into the ER on two separate occasions, barely able to walk. Because I could bear weight on my legs, all they did was wrap it in an ace bandage and write me a prescription for pain killers. No X-Rays, no serious examination, just send me on with what could have been torn tendons, cartilage, anything.

And it HAS affected my weight. I can only seriously walk on GOOD days. While those good days are fortunately around 70-80% of the time, I also have to count on them not conflicting with days I actually have TIME to walk. I could walk more, sure, but I'm also limited on those days. Even more so by the fact that the cool days where it's usually more comfortable, are also more prone to be the worse ones.

No amount of management, mis- or otherwise, can predict emergency room volume and acuity at every point in time. If we tried to staff our ER's with enough personnel to never be short-staffed, 1) we couldn't begin to find enough qualified people and 2) every hospital would go bankrupt in a matter of months. You have to remember, it's not just the ER - it's the lab, the x-ray department, the pharmacy, all the infrastructure needed to support the ER as well. Experience has shown me that the more emergency services expand, in terms of number of beds and staff, the even greater the volume grows, quickly overwhelming the brief leg up on staffing. People are human and when the ER gets bigger/faster, guess what - it gets used more. It's always a tail-chasing exercise. There will never be a situation where every person is seen & treated immediately upon presentation - best we can hope for is to get close.

None of the above absolves the hospital in question in this post - it's hard to conceive of a situation where someone bleeding in the waiting room doesn't get higher priority, but without knowing the acuity of those patients already in the door and what was actually going on in totality, it is impossible to issue a blanket condemnation. A full evaluation of the totality of those circumstances is warranted, for sure. Our penchant to rush to judgement these days (Duke) has this hospital tried, convicted & hung already, but that is based on selective, bare facts. Just isn't that straightforward.

Having been an ER/critical care doc at one time, I can assure you that the overwhelming majority of emergency physicians, ER nurses and staff are dedicated folks doing their best with the resources at their disposal, given the medicolegal climate they practice in. They don't like making people wait any more than you like waiting. They do care. I used to hate how long it took to get lab reports & x-rays back on less-than-critical patients but you made the best of it and tried your best to be sure the decisions you were making were in the best interest of the patient, that you didn't rush to judgment - after all, virtually all the people you are asked to evaluate are people you've never met before & have limited information about. To condemn an entire profession or industry based on anecdotal experience & complaints (who doesn't love to complain about their ER visit?) is to expose a degree of ignorance (in the academic sense) of the nature of providing medical care these days.

They don't like making people wait any more than you like waiting. They do care.

You know, all it takes for me to believe that is an "I'm sorry for the wait".  But do you know how seldom I get that?  I would love to believe what you're saying about the "overwhelming majority" but it would seem if that were the case, the overwhelming majority of patients would feel like they cared.

I have an immense amount of respect and appreciation for people who work in the medical field.  I just hope that they don't forget that they are working with people.  They need to remember common courtesy that isn't so common anymore like simple apologies that go a long way.

I will certainly be interested in seeing what all of the facts are surrounding this case.

Right. It's called "bedside manner".

Daiwa, you're right on some of your points, but there are also some very legitimate issues that are raised. If we fail to look into those issues because we believe the majority are good, then we weaken the whole industry.

As I am sure you well know, it turns out this woman died of a perforated bowel. Something that could have been fixed had her complaints been taken seriously and investigated. Something that certainly would have prompted the numerous ER visits she logged, visits that SHOULD have been taken more seriously, especially when she was vomitting blood.

As for the two cases I mentioned, they were inexcusable as well. I realize the default rate on indigent care is high, but somewhere between slapping an ace bandage and sending someone home and actually evaluating the knee, there lies a balance. A balance that should have been sought. And refusing to give a woman in labor ice chips, ESPECIALLY when it turns out she was dehydrated (3 hours in labor with no water after she was ALREADY dehydrated? Insane, man!) was just wrong.

Like Jill, I would like to meet these dedicated professionals. Perhaps if they start driving the snake oil salespeople out of the industry, they will find more respect coming from the poorer quarters.